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Old 02-06-2011, 12:27 PM   #46
Il Duce
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

INGO, in early 1961 was not the INGO (pre-1960).

Though his right hand was still heavy, his defense went south.
He had been bopped to the canvas several times in his boxing exhibitions
in Geneva in January 1961.

Though, it must be said, he was not in good fighting form, and there were concerns that he was not fit, for fighting a 15-Round Championship Bout.

I do have to check my old files, but INGO was put to the floor 4-times in a 3-Round
exhibition in Belgium, sometime in November 1960. Thats when the questions
started to pop-out.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
In INGO's next '2' bouts after the Patterson III Fight.
He was floored in the first round by;
Wim Snoek,,,,,,,(Who the F***)
Joe Bygraves,,,,(Old man)

Tom McNeeley,,,,,Forgot about him,,a World Title Challenger
Johansson was very much considered damaged goods GOING IN to the third Patterson fight.
I think I mentioned on the other thread there was actually some controversy surrounding it, with Gene Tunney stirring it up the most by stating that he thought Johansson was brain damaged. When Ingemar showed up in America fat as a pig that didn't help matters. And he was well out of shape still come fight time.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:57 PM   #48
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by reznick View Post
Ingo maybe, but Patterson? I would say highly unlikely.


Pattersons incredible hand speed was trouble for Ali in their two matches.

I cant imagine how a very green Ali would have won, let alone survived, with Patterson at that time.


If I really had to make a proper prediction I would say Patterson defeats Ali in a decisive unanimous 15 round decision with Ali having been felled 3 times, yet miraculously showing enough heart and courage to stick it out till the end.

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Old 02-06-2011, 03:41 PM   #49
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

The writing was on the wall with INGO.

November 5, 1960, during a boxing exhibition in Stockholm, Sweden.
More-or-less INGO's pre-training camp for the March 1961 bout with Patterson.

INGO's sparring partner, John Henry, 26, 6' 0", a 190-pound mediocre journey-man heavyweight
with a record of (6-5-3) (1 KO).

John Henry drops INGO 4-times.
After each flash knock-down, the sparring was halted, so each fighter could
re-group, and have a period of rest.

The exhibition was supposed to be a 4-Round Show.
In all fairness, INGO did drop John Henry once (the last knockdown of the exhibition),
which ended the show.

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-06-2011 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:29 PM   #50
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

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lololol

we gon make this girl famous!
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:58 PM   #51
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

That girl is cute,,,,,give her back that McDonald's Kid Gift,,,,,, Rez...

For general information.
If a 6' 0", 190 lb. trial-horse sparring partner with 1 KO victory in 14-bouts can floor you
4-times in 4 Rounds, something is wrong with your chin.

Ingo was ready to go in early-1961.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:23 AM   #52
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

I think there were probably at least six or seven active heavyweights at the time who would have beaten the Ingemar of the 3rd fight.
Even Eddie Machen would have. And probably the novice Clay. Harold Johnson. Liston of course. Big Cat Williams.

Ingo could still hit but he'd have trouble landing the necessary punch against a good fit fighter, his conditioning was bad, and his punch resistance was almost down to zero.

There were probably two or three heavies around who could have beaten Patterson then too.
I really believe the pair of them held the title hostage come this time, and I reckon some good fighters missed out on a real solid chance of dethroning them.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:24 AM   #53
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

..... BUT the Patterson-Ingo trilogy were entertaining fights !
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:23 AM   #54
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

MR. UN,

1961, a Bad time for the Heavyweight Championship.
Two 'shaky' guys in the ring at the same time.

All of INGO's sparring sessions in Miami Beach were held behind closed doors
at The Sea Breeze Hotel, in a closed off conference room, where no one had access.

His regular sparring partner John Henry was let go at the end of 1960, and in
January 1961 in Geneva, Switzerland, he was popped to the canvas several times
by one Thorner Ahsman, a 5' 11", 195-pound Heavyweight with a record of (10-1-2) (4 KO's)

Early reports from Europe, to fight promoter Bill Fugazy in Miami Beach were not
good concerning the condition of INGO.
He was getting dropped or shaken by right hands on a too much regular basis.

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-07-2011 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:17 AM   #55
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

T-N-T,

INGO's sparring sessions were held behind closed doors at The Sea Breeze Hotel.
With;
Tony Esperti................... (February 7 thru March 5)
Joey La Quatra................ (February 7 thru March 11)
Billy Stephan....................(February 7 thru March 11)
Pekka Kokkonen................(February 7 thru February 18, and March 2 thru March 11)
Howard 'Honey Boy' King.....(February 19 thru March 1)
Ted 'Kayo' Donald..............(February 19 thru March 1)

At Convention Hall, Monday, February 6, 1961.
Pekka Kokkonen I.............(February 6 @ Convention Hall, 8-minutes)
Cassius Clay....................(February 6 @ Convention Hall, 5-minutes)
Otha Brown.....................(February 6 @ Convention Hall, 5-minutes)
Ted 'Kayo' Donald,,,,,,,,,,,,,(February 6 @ Convention Hall, 3-minutes)
Pekka Kokkonen II,,,,,,,,,,,,(February 6 @ Convention Hall, 9-minutes)

His work-out sessions with the Heavy-Bag were held on the beach in Miami Beach.
An outdoor work-out center was provided.

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-07-2011 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:15 PM   #56
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

Ingo's the former Heavyweight Champion of the world...Clay won the Gold Medal in 1960 in Rome....it was good publicity...
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:23 PM   #57
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

Actually......Rocky Jim,,,,,,,,,,,it was just that.......a publicity scheme.

INGO had arrived in Miami Beach, on Friday, February 3, 1961.
He was staying at the Holiday Inn.
On Saturday, February 4th, INGO had a press conference, which was set up by Feature Sports, Inc. and Bill Fugazy Jr. the fight promoters.
The Miami Herald and Miami News, the 'two' top Florida newspapers and local
Television Network affiliates were there.

Ingo was to start his training on Tuesday, February 7th, at the Sea Breeze Hotel.

But for publicity, Feature Sports, Inc. fight publicist, Harold Conrad, set up
a staged sparring session, to be held in the Convention Hall for late Monday morning, February 6th.
The sparring session would be filmed, so the local networks could get some
stock film footage of INGO, to be shown on local Television that night, and also to be released to the
Sports Divisions of the major television Networks.

Cassius Clay and Otha Brown, local kids, were brought in for sparring and filming, as both fighters were
on the Convention Hall fight card, Tuesday, February 7th.

A publicity item was released in the Miami Herald, on Sunday February 5th.
Both, Edward Pope and John Underwood were the sports writers.
It stated, 'Olympic Champ to Box INGO Monday on Miami Beach'

It was nothing more than a staged photo shoot and film shoot.
Of course, it got blown out of proportion, that Cassius Clay schooled Ingo.
Which in reality, is so far from the truth, as to what really had happened.

INGO boxed 3-rounds with Finland Light Heavyweight Pekka Kokkonen,
then went 2-Rounds with Cassius Clay,
then 2-Rounds with Light Heavyweight Otha Brown,
then 1-round with Heavyweight Ted Donald (who Ingo floored)
before finishing up with another 3-rounds with Pekka Kokkonen.

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-07-2011 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:56 PM   #58
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

D,

Pekka Kokkonen, was a 27 year old, Finland Light Heavyweight, 5' 11" and 175 lbs.
Had a style, similar to Floyd Patterson, a modified Peek-A-Boo.
Good hand-speed, average foot-work, above average power and decent chin.
In January 1961, his record was 14-6-1 (12 KO's)

His sparring sessions with INGO, were nothing more than speed sessions.
INGO was working on improving his left hand lead, not really a jab, but a
heavy straight left.
Pekka, would bob-and-weave in a Floyd Patterson style, while INGO would
shoot heavy straight lefts.
Pekka was not utilized as an offensive sparring partner. He was strictly there to help
INGO improve his left hand lead.

He sparred with INGO for a little over a week in February, flew back to Stockholm for a bout on 2/24, then flew
back to Miami Beach and sparred another week or so.
Then fought on the March 13, 1961 undercard. One busy FIN.

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-07-2011 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:39 AM   #59
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

RJ,

Pekka Kokkonen has the entire filming of the sparring sesions at The Convention Hall.
Also, interviewed for the released film in Finland and Sweden.
30+ minutes of light-sparring, with himself, Clay, Otah Brown and Ted Donald.

He stated, (when translated) a publicity stunt, with Clay and Brown.
Both were fighting the next night, and Chris Dundee the fight promoter needed
some highlights of sparring to show on Television Monday night, to help promote
the Tuesday night show, which had slow pre-fight ticket sales.

Pekka's take on Cassius Clay;
Very, very quick. The best footwork I had ever seen.
But with those hands by his side, he was open for quick right hand leads.
I can't say anything about his power, because I was never in the ring with him.
But INGO said, that I punched harder than Clay (February 1961).

I was supposed to spar with Clay a week or so later, after his fight.
But I never got a chance.
I would have loved the opportunity.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:42 AM   #60
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Default Re: INGO vs. Cassius Clay (Sparring session, Fake or ?)

Good Information,,,,

No else has come close to this.
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