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Old 08-02-2012, 07:25 PM   #76
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

For me the things that made him great to watch were the things that would of been his downfall against a lot of great fighters like the morales, barrera, pacs and mayweatheers that were around duing his time

he did have great power and could pull a great punch out from awkward angles. he would deffo be a danger to anyone in history
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:57 PM   #77
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

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No he shouldn't. He tried to turn the most shallow dimension of boxing (as entertainment) into it's only dimension. It's beautifully fitting that a fighter previously known as a brawler pulled a solid, professional, tactical performance to dominate the fight. If we were talking about someone like Jack Blackburn, for example, who had a spotty record cause he was forced to fight people two or three divisions above him to make a living, than I'd say yes. Just put it in perspective, man. If you could choose between the gifted moron who was too busy showboating and humiliating another athlete to hone his craft, and an poor clumsy SOB who couldn't box for shit but was ready to put his clumsy ass on the line and to work like a MF (like Fullmer or Marciano or whatever), who would you choose to be 'great'? So, no he shouldn't have. He could have. Just like Fullmer's clumsy ass (not that he was 'great', but you know what I mean).
I love this post.OTIMO!!But I'd like to add even though he had some impressive gifts,he had a very poor boxing IQ and depended on psyching out his less than spectacular list of opponents into fighting his fight.I simply believe his lack of boxing poise and intelligence prevented him from being great.Once he got out of his comfort zone,he was exposed.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:59 PM   #78
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

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I'm sorry but FW division is one of the historically deepest divisions with many ATGs and Naz never had what it takes to be better than fighters like Sanchez and the Wisp
I love this post,too.Well put.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:14 PM   #79
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

His ego couldn't handle defeat.

He quit when the going got tough. He didn't say, 'Well, looks like I've got some work to do.' He took his ball home and decided not to play anymore.

That doesn't define greatness, or potential for same, to me. Berrera exposed more than his lack of fundamentals; he exposed Nazsty's lack of mental toughness.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:22 PM   #80
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

Colin McMillan UD Hamed
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:45 PM   #81
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

He could have been a lot better. Miles lots better.

Take just a third of the energy he spent on gimmicking, individualism and flamboyance, transfer that into more time spent on learning how to box, and you have the strong posibility of one of the greatest champions, ever. Seriously.

If I'd trained Hamed, I'd knock off a lot of the BS stuff he pulls and teach him the proper way to use the angles with his hands up. Save the crap for the cameras and interviewers and keep the business in the ring. I've never been one for the hands down by the waist approach, chin exposed, coming in with awkward shots from angles that do more damage to yourself if you land the punches wrong. Also foolish because of how wide open you leave your head to counter shots.

His left hand would never drop below his chest. We would establish a comfort zone for the right. Either on the bottom of the chin, at the cheek or above the eye, the right hand would have its protection place. It rarely moves from that spot. He's not a conventional boxer, but I'd have that jab hand up and it would be working, #1. Prince has knockout power so I'd make him attack using more head movement and shoulder rotations moving forward with the jab. He'd step in properly with the double jab, follow with a straight right to the body and finish with the hook on top classic. I'd bust that four punch combo into his head and mix it up as part of his game plan of attack. Everything off that hard jab. Switch it up, counter with the straight right lead, left hook to the head or body and than finish with the double jab coming out. At any time he can break the sequence as long as he's jabbing, staying busy building up points in the rounds to set up his knockout shots.

He would go to the body a lot more too. Early and often. With that power, there's no reason not too. He'd have a much better boxing stance using his feet to maximize that natural power. You'd be surprised how much damage Prince could do and how easy some of his fights could have been had he spent more time on weight transfer in his punches and working on his core and coil in the ring. Prince could probably take some power off his shots and still do the same, if not more damage. The reason being is the punch would be thrown better using his legs properly. He'd throw a lot less awkward shots with his right hand and more proper lead rights when the time called for it. Too many times the guy got hit where he shouldn't have and only had his God given power to save him from disaster. There were moments of disaster too, and in the end it was disastrous at times.

He doesn't have Ali's reflexes to try and use his style in the ring, nor create his own from it, especially without Ali's footspeed. Nobody does, not even RJJr. Roy was close and very fast on his feet moving in any direction though. Prince did have decent speed but I would never consider him fast.

Yes he was very good for his time, sometimes awesome beyond explanation. Believe me, I shook my head in disbelief many times after his fights throughout his whole career.
An all time great but not in the Johnson, Ali, Robinson, Louis company. Could have been though.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:34 PM   #82
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

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His ego couldn't handle defeat.

He quit when the going got tough. He didn't say, 'Well, looks like I've got some work to do.' He took his ball home and decided not to play anymore.

That doesn't define greatness, or potential for same, to me. Berrera exposed more than his lack of fundamentals; he exposed Nazsty's lack of mental toughness.
Yeah. The thing is what ultimately made that single black blotch become a black hole that sucked his whole career was the over protection. If he was thrown to the wolves and dropped a few or realized he wasn't such hot goods as he believed as maybe an amateur or something, he might have had time to pick himself up, start again and seek to improve without any pressure. When he finally found out what a real pro could do, realized that he had to improve, and finally tried to do something about it, the paying bovines he drawn (who didn't give a phat **** about boxing and were there exclusively to watch a clown acting like Jim Carrey knock out chumps) booed him. In a way, at least as his resolve is concerned, his talent might have worked against him. Take Marciano, for example. While he retired undefeated, his skills were put to doubt from the day he started as a pro to his last defense against Archie Moore (by Archie himself). Actually until today. Anyway... His resolve was tested all the time outside and inside the ring, since a lot of his victories were huge ****ing trials were he had to want it even when he couldn't or shouldn't because of his very lack of natural aptitude. In the end, frustration does seem to be a spring for a boxer, even the ones accused of cherry picking like RJJ. I wonder how much that silver medal of his keeps pushing him into the ring even when he has no business in it anymore.

Last edited by WhyYouLittle; 08-02-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:54 AM   #83
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

Hameds just one in a long line of guys whose gameplan, plan A became just a home run punch. This was evident in the MAB fight.

That works against the Billy Hardys of the world but not against smarter fighters.

Hamed could have been great but he screwed it up. People also seem to forget that MAB changed his style for that fight, before that he was a brawler whod been Kod by Junior Jones, against Hamed he turned counterpuncher and boxed smartly behind a very tight guard.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:08 AM   #84
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

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Originally Posted by round15 View Post
He could have been a lot better. Miles lots better.

Take just a third of the energy he spent on gimmicking, individualism and flamboyance, transfer that into more time spent on learning how to box, and you have the strong posibility of one of the greatest champions, ever. Seriously.

If I'd trained Hamed, I'd knock off a lot of the BS stuff he pulls and teach him the proper way to use the angles with his hands up. Save the crap for the cameras and interviewers and keep the business in the ring. I've never been one for the hands down by the waist approach, chin exposed, coming in with awkward shots from angles that do more damage to yourself if you land the punches wrong. Also foolish because of how wide open you leave your head to counter shots.

His left hand would never drop below his chest. We would establish a comfort zone for the right. Either on the bottom of the chin, at the cheek or above the eye, the right hand would have its protection place. It rarely moves from that spot. He's not a conventional boxer, but I'd have that jab hand up and it would be working, #1. Prince has knockout power so I'd make him attack using more head movement and shoulder rotations moving forward with the jab. He'd step in properly with the double jab, follow with a straight right to the body and finish with the hook on top classic. I'd bust that four punch combo into his head and mix it up as part of his game plan of attack. Everything off that hard jab. Switch it up, counter with the straight right lead, left hook to the head or body and than finish with the double jab coming out. At any time he can break the sequence as long as he's jabbing, staying busy building up points in the rounds to set up his knockout shots.

He would go to the body a lot more too. Early and often. With that power, there's no reason not too. He'd have a much better boxing stance using his feet to maximize that natural power. You'd be surprised how much damage Prince could do and how easy some of his fights could have been had he spent more time on weight transfer in his punches and working on his core and coil in the ring. Prince could probably take some power off his shots and still do the same, if not more damage. The reason being is the punch would be thrown better using his legs properly. He'd throw a lot less awkward shots with his right hand and more proper lead rights when the time called for it. Too many times the guy got hit where he shouldn't have and only had his God given power to save him from disaster. There were moments of disaster too, and in the end it was disastrous at times.

He doesn't have Ali's reflexes to try and use his style in the ring, nor create his own from it, especially without Ali's footspeed. Nobody does, not even RJJr. Roy was close and very fast on his feet moving in any direction though. Prince did have decent speed but I would never consider him fast.

Yes he was very good for his time, sometimes awesome beyond explanation. Believe me, I shook my head in disbelief many times after his fights throughout his whole career.
An all time great but not in the Johnson, Ali, Robinson, Louis company. Could have been though.
Most of that wouldn't work with Hamed's style, you can't completely reformulate a boxer. Part of his strength was dropping his hands to force and exchange or to draw a counter. His reflexes at his best are good but he overly focused on exchanging at the expense of punch slipping.

He needed to work with someone like Herol Graham and trained harder. He did used to use far more movement and went to the body more earlier in his career. He got complacent by the end

I think Hamed overall has become massively underrated off 1 fight. No one rips Morales skills to shreds for his losses against Barrera and him getting outboxed by Espadas (gift decision) and Raheem, do they? Everyone overrates Morales and disparages Hamed and in most part it's due to personality.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:21 AM   #85
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

Hamed was very good but he fell in love with his power and neglecting his boxing skills.

I don't buy that 'he lacked mental toughness' because he lost interest when he was beaten and retired. That's just what happens sometimes in life. There's more to life than boxing. The guy made millions and lost interest in boxing -that's say nothing about his 'mental toughness' when he was active.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:45 AM   #86
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

^^^ agree!

this is another example of greatness "achievement based", which equals wrong for me...

he should of been great or would of been great, had he beaten Barrera or just one or two more victories. WRONG!!!

fighters are Great or excellent or very good end of... and that is determined during their prime top years win or lose.

There are lots of Greats, plain & simple. Hamed was not one of them.

Very good is where I place him.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:09 AM   #87
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

Hamed earnt millions, Hamed was huge, dare i say it, Hamed was bigger than Mayweather.

Hamed had sponsorship deals with PlayStation, Addidas, he was doing commericals, walking to the ring with P Shitty (sorry P Diddy). Hamed was ****ing huge in the 90s.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:16 AM   #88
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

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Hamed earnt millions, Hamed was huge, dare i say it, Hamed was bigger than Mayweather.

Hamed had sponsorship deals with PlayStation, Addidas, he was doing commericals, walking to the ring with P Shitty (sorry P Diddy). Hamed was ****ing huge in the 90s.
Dude, that's popular not great.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:59 AM   #89
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Default Re: Naseem hammed should have been great

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Originally Posted by Azzer85 View Post
Hameds just one in a long line of guys whose gameplan, plan A became just a home run punch. This was evident in the MAB fight.

That works against the Billy Hardys of the world but not against smarter fighters.

Hamed could have been great but he screwed it up. People also seem to forget that MAB changed his style for that fight, before that he was a brawler whod been Kod by Junior Jones, against Hamed he turned counterpuncher and boxed smartly behind a very tight guard.

Actually i think you're forgetting that Barrera began changing his style after his defeats to Junior Jones...In his fight before Hamed, against Jesus Salud, Barrera was showing plenty of Boxing skills...Even had Stewart concerned after watching that performance.
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:19 PM   #90
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If he'd had it in him, it would have happened.
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