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Old 08-03-2012, 12:56 PM   #16
lufcrazy
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
luf's criteria are crazy in my opinion, but it's unlikely there is a human being more consistent in applying them.
yeah i'm gonna take this as a compliment

I know I'm quite liberal with weight limits but that's because it's representative of the times.

i.e. Lesnevich fought Bivins (178 - 176) technically over the lhw limit, but no way would i call that a hw fight.

same with apostoli-steele 2, definitely a mw fight
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

Interesting to see other's rankings: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
That's entirely consistent!

a 200lb man beating a 174 man is a hw fight.
a 174lb man beating a 161lb man is a lhw fight.

If the opponents are great fighter's, it's a great victory.


So a 200 lb man is a heavyweight, but a 180lb man is a light heavyweight?

And a a 170lb man beating a 200lb man is a heavyweight.

but if a 170lb man beats a 180lb man he is a heavyweight.

what happens if a 160lb man beats a 170lb man? is he a light heavyweight? But if he beat a 180lb man he is a heavyeight?

and if the opponent is great then the opponent is great, unless he weighs over 175 in which case he is of no relevance.

This ranking system is getting crazier and crazier. Though sometimes i think Frakenfrank uses a similar system which dents to give it more credibility
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

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So a 200 lb man is a heavyweight, but a 180lb man is a light heavyweight?

And a a 170lb man beating a 200lb man is a heavyweight.

but if a 170lb man beats a 180lb man he is a heavyweight.

what happens if a 160lb man beats a 170lb man? is he a light heavyweight? But if he beat a 180lb man he is a heavyeight?

and if the opponent is great then the opponent is great, unless he weighs over 175 in which case he is of no relevance.

This ranking system is getting crazier and crazier. Though sometimes i think Frakenfrank uses a similar system which dents to give it more credibility
you are pretty crazy today pal and not one your posts has made sense.

I'm saying for me the weight of the fighter has to be reflective of the times and/or divisions.

a man weighin 180lb fighting a man weighing 170 lb is a fight more relevant to the weight division.

when greb fights at 160 vs say walker at 160, I class it as a Mw victory. when greb fights at 160 vs say tunney at 175, I class it as a lhw victory.

why would a fighter not be great if he weighs above 175? are you saying Joe Louis isn't a great fighter?

Frank has a h2h based system.

I mean this in the best possible way, are you high or something because every post I've seen of yours today is way off the subject at hand.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
you are pretty crazy today pal and not one your posts has made sense.

I'm saying for me the weight of the fighter has to be reflective of the times and/or divisions.

a man weighin 180lb fighting a man weighing 170 lb is a fight more relevant to the weight division.

when greb fights at 160 vs say walker at 160, I class it as a Mw victory. when greb fights at 160 vs say tunney at 175, I class it as a lhw victory.

why would a fighter not be great if he weighs above 175? are you saying Joe Louis isn't a great fighter?

Frank has a h2h based system.

I mean this in the best possible way, are you high or something because every post I've seen of yours today is way off the subject at hand.

If Langford weighs slight over the light heavyweight limit, this is okay?

If Langford weighs in as light heavy but his opponent is over the heavyweight limit that is not okay? This is the most ridiculous part of the criteria, imo. The rest are just little inconsistencies which dont really matter too much one way or the other.


Although it is a moot point anyway. because Langford was never really a light heavy, even under your criteria. At best he has a handful of wins, against some good but nothing overly special opponents. Yet this is going to place him in the top 20 of all time without relying overly on head to head abilities.

By the way, i hadnt realised that Jim Flynn was fighting at such a low weight after the Johnson fight where he weighed over 175. Quite interesting actually.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
If Langford weighs slight over the light heavyweight limit, this is okay?

If Langford weighs in as light heavy but his opponent is over the heavyweight limit that is not okay? This is the most ridiculous part of the criteria, imo. The rest are just little inconsistencies which dont really matter too much one way or the other.


Although it is a moot point anyway. because Langford was never really a light heavy, even under your criteria. At best he has a handful of wins, against some good but nothing overly special opponents. Yet this is going to place him in the top 20 of all time without relying overly on head to head abilities.

By the way, i hadnt realised that Jim Flynn was fighting at such a low weight after the Johnson fight where he weighed over 175. Quite interesting actually.
lesnevich v bivins, do you call that a lhw fight or a hw fight?

if one is over 190 they're undoubtedly engaged in a hw fight, nothing about it being o.k. it's about what division i classify the fight as being in.

nothing inconsistent about it.

well by my criteria he clearly was, otherwise i wouldn't rank him number 15.

then research the era better than you have done.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:26 PM   #22
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I don't think for one second that Langford is anything less than one of the very best fighters that ever lived that weighed around 175lbs.

My question for you guys is, who did he definitely beat when he weighed 175lbs or less when his opponent also weighed 175lbs or less, but where Langford also weighed above 160lbs?

Which fighters weighing more than 175lbs did he beat when he weighed between 160 and 175lbs?

How comfortable are you ranking him top 10 without detailed info on these numbers if you do so?
I find it incredibly hard to rate Langford at all ,in the first place,in which division do you put him?
He just may have been the greatest 175 pounder of all time.
For example ,would you be confident of putting your wages on Charles or Moore to beat him? Tunney and ,Conn might outspeed him,but excellent champs like Delaney,Dillon,Foster would be no more than even money and, for me , no better than 40/60 against him.
Maybe Greb could stay a step ahead of him, who else?
Spinks? Doubtful,imo.

Including men who never won the title such as Tunney,and of course Charles,I put Sam in the top 5 easily.

Last edited by mcvey; 08-04-2012 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:46 AM   #23
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

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Like if Apsotoli would have beaten Conn, that'd be a measure of his greatness as a lhw, not as a mw, get it?
Yeah, I get it. I just don't agree with it.

For example, if Andre Ward decided to fight and beat a load of ranked heavyweights but he weighs in at 168, I'd give those achievements as proof that he's a great super-middle as well as good cw/hw.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: Langford's ranking at LHW

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Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Yeah, I get it. I just don't agree with it.

For example, if Andre Ward decided to fight and beat a load of ranked heavyweights but he weighs in at 168, I'd give those achievements as proof that he's a great super-middle as well as good cw/hw.
That's a perfectly valid conclusion also.

In that situation i'd call him a great heavyweight and give him p4p kudos.

It's something I deliberated about for a while (due to armstrong actually) and I decided the only way to stop a victory counting as double (like in your model he gets credit both as a smw and hw) is to go with the weight of the heaviest fighter.
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