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Old 08-03-2012, 05:10 PM   #1
Steviewonder
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Default The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

I have often thought about this; How was Ali so badly stunned against Henry Cooper, when he took murderous bombs off the likes of Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ernie Shavers. (I can't remember if Sonny Liston caught him with a flush, clean punch)

I don't want to take anything away from the late Henry Cooper here. He had a good left hook, & the one he caught Ali with was perfectly timed & clinically delivered.

But no-one can convince me that it possessed more force than the Frazier hook which floored him, or those off the others I mentioned. None of those shots he took off them dazed him as badly as that one off Cooper.

I know Ali himself did say that the hardest puncher he faced was Earnie Shavers, & that when Frazier hit him with those hooks in their last fight, he felt like he was in a dark room all by himself.

But it still baffles me a little that Cooper had him visibly so ****ed-up, then he went on & took a lot of hard shots off the hardest punchers of the era, mostly after his lay-off.

I can only guess that either his chin got better later in his career, or his recuperative powers did.

When all's said & done, Ali did have one of the greatest chins ever, but what theory do others have on all this?
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

ever had a couple of beers in the afternoon and felt well on your way, and then other times (MOST of the time), it takes a good 6, 7, 8 to do the same?

there are so many reasons,

he was caught out by an excellent unexpected punch,
it just effected him worse then for whatever reason,
it was just as hard as any he'd ever recieved,
he was more UP for those 'other' atmospherically charged battles... and on & on.

Who Knows?

point is it was as good and as deadly as any punch, and he felt it, more or not, for reasons unknown, it was still a KO delivery and he was lucky to have come through it!
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

It wasn't the power.

It was the quickness in which it came, and pin-point accuracy.

Cassius Clay never knew what hit him.

Same thing with Esteban De Jesus versus Roberto Duran.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

he didnt see it coming nor did he expect it. Against Foreman he knew he was gonna be hit hard.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

Those answers do make some sense. I suppose any fighter can have a slightly 'off' day, just the same as any of us can with our jobs.

I agree with what Thistle says, there could be one or a number of factors involved which prevented him from being 100% on the night. He probably took Henry Cooper too lightly, wasn't fired-up enough, not trained that hard.

Only Ali himself knows the real reason.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

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Originally Posted by TheNeonSalmon View Post
he didnt see it coming nor did he expect it. Against Foreman he knew he was gonna be hit hard.
True. But I do remember from a clip of that round that Cooper caught him with a couple of hooks before that knockdown one. Possibly he'd already rocked him a little, so Ali was set up for it.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviewonder View Post
Those answers do make some sense. I suppose any fighter can have a slightly 'off' day, just the same as any of us can with our jobs.

I agree with what Thistle says, there could be one or a number of factors involved which prevented him from being 100% on the night. He probably took Henry Cooper too lightly, wasn't fired-up enough, not trained that hard.

Only Ali himself knows the real reason.
That was no day off.

He got caught with a 'crisp shot' from an experienced pro, who had
a good left hand.

If you look at that round closely, you could see that Cassius Clay was a
'bit out of sorts' from an earlier punch, and Ol 'Enry was pressing him,
looking to unload with the left.

Nothing beats 'timing'.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:06 PM   #8
heerko koois
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frn3rTj5DOY&feature=related[/ame]
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

When I was 10 or 11 I read Henry Cooper's "how to box" book. In that book, he said that, after being tested, his left hook, traveling five inches, landed with the same force as a 16 pound bowling ball at the end of the alley, striking the headpin. That is pretty hard; as Mr Cooper said, you don't need to hit any harder.
What amazes me is that "the greatest", after being floored by hooks from sonny isaacs and henry cooper was never "GREAT" enough to figure out how to block a hook, especially going into a noted left hooker like Frazier. My theory has always been that the "GREATEST" has been an overhyped media sensation and a conquerer of overrated opposition.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

Thanks for that, heerko. Watching that, Cooper did catch Clay with several left hooks before the knockdown. Clay was way too audatious. Like I said earlier, I think the hooks wore him down until he was ripe for the knockdown.

Good spirit in firing back in the fifth.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

any hw, landing the right punch, can drop any heavyweight.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
any hw, landing the right punch, can drop any heavyweight.
A very good point.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
That was no day off.

He got caught with a 'crisp shot' from an experienced pro, who had
a good left hand.

If you look at that round closely, you could see that Cassius Clay was a
'bit out of sorts' from an earlier punch, and Ol 'Enry was pressing him,
looking to unload with the left.

Nothing beats 'timing'.

I see what you mean, having watched heerko's video. Ali did have problems against hooking fighters. Cooper had him all over the shop with those hooks. Ali actually did well to take that many.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

Cooper was a murderous puncher. If you check Ali's record and watch all the filmed fights of him out there -most are on you tube anyway- anyone will find (and I mean even people new to the sport) will see that although Ali himself was a big man it was fast lighter men who caused him problems. Ali's big asset was he was a big man who had a lighter mans speed, workrate and power but had the added bonus of size and strength to absorb all that the slower bigger heavyweights could muster. Worked great on the heavy guys ...not so the lighter faster guys. You meet the speed and work rate and it cancels out the size. The edge Ali had was he could get off quicker and disregard what the other fellow tried to do. Lucky for him he cut Cooper.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Henry Cooper left hook on Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
Cooper was a murderous puncher. If you check Ali's record and watch all the filmed fights of him out there -most are on you tube anyway- anyone will find (and I mean even people new to the sport) will see that although Ali himself was a big man it was fast lighter men who caused him problems. Ali's big asset was he was a big man who had a lighter mans speed, workrate and power but had the added bonus of size and strength to absorb all that the slower bigger heavyweights could muster. Worked great on the heavy guys ...not so the lighter faster guys. You meet the speed and work rate and it cancels out the size. The edge Ali had was he could get off quicker and disregard what the other fellow tried to do. Lucky for him he cut Cooper.

I think he's even luckier there was only two seconds left of the fourth round.
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