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Old 08-04-2012, 07:02 PM   #31
Kittikasem
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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I love how Jones gets marked down simply because Scurla imagines he won't be able to compete at heavyweight. As if that has any relevance at all to the discussion.

And Tito gets praised for stopping a 38 year old injured Shamrock who would lose by 1st round TKO in five of his next six fights. As if Jones wouldn't beat the living shit out of that Shamrock even easier than Tito did.

How does Tito's fabled ground and pound go at heavyweight, scurla? What's that? It's irrelevant because the man never fought at heavy, you say?

Yeah I don't really understand how the discussion turned to Jones at hw. Not relevant to this thread really. Can't believe I'm kind of on the same page as Haggis here.

For what it's worth, I'd say Tito enjoyed size advantages in his time at lhw as well. He was often just a bigger, heavier guy than the average lhw contender. Tito is very big compared to Kondo, Tanner and even Wanderlei.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

I would say yes.

Him and Fedor at the top.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

Headbutt city. Any old MMA fan will know this dude.
But the real answer is Fedor. He hit harder on the ground than people hit on their feet.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:58 PM   #34
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

LOL @ attributing Jones' success on the ground purely to size, then praising Tito, whose most decisive wins in his prime came against smaller men.

I'm not wasting my time with this thread.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

I would like to see Sonnen destroy Jones one day.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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I would like to see Sonnen destroy Jones one day.
That wouldn't be possible for him to do, but sure, why not.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:19 AM   #37
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
Yeah I don't really understand how the discussion turned to Jones at hw. Not relevant to this thread really. Can't believe I'm kind of on the same page as Haggis here.

For what it's worth, I'd say Tito enjoyed size advantages in his time at lhw as well. He was often just a bigger, heavier guy than the average lhw contender. Tito is very big compared to Kondo, Tanner and even Wanderlei.
I'm fairly certain you possess more reading comprehension that Wikiboy. Note i'm talking about GnP here. I made that VERY clear in my post.
This is a discussion primarily about JJ's apparent GnP. That much is abundantly clear from the thread title hence my response. As is usually the case in discussion they evolve as we use similes and comparisons to elaborate on our points. Hence why i mentioned JJs effectiveness up at heavy as at some stage it is mooted he will move there. If his GnP is that good then surely it should translate to heavy.
Likewise I bought up Tito to illustrate why he became infamous for his Gnp, and what effective GnP should look like. Head to head Jones doesn't measure up when compared with the best guys out there who employed GnP as a major part of their skillset.
I wouldn't expect wikiboy to understand that as he's obviously not seen the fights, likes to rankle points for the sake of a circular argument, whilst subtracting his own retarded interpretation of what i said. I'm not expecting that of you even though you do have a habit of writing essays on semantics.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:19 AM   #38
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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I would like to see Sonnen destroy Jones one day.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:55 AM   #39
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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Originally Posted by scurlaruntings View Post
I'm fairly certain you possess more reading comprehension that Wikiboy. Note i'm talking about GnP here. I made that VERY clear in my post.
This is a discussion primarily about JJ's apparent GnP. That much is abundantly clear from the thread title hence my response. As is usually the case in discussion they evolve as we use similes and comparisons to elaborate on our points. Hence why i mentioned JJs effectiveness up at heavy as at some stage it is mooted he will move there. If his GnP is that good then surely it should translate to heavy.
Likewise I bought up Tito to illustrate why he became infamous for his Gnp, and what effective GnP should look like. Head to head Jones doesn't measure up when compared with the best guys out there who employed GnP as a major part of their skillset.
I wouldn't expect wikiboy to understand that as he's obviously not seen the fights, likes to rankle points for the sake of a circular argument, whilst subtracting his own retarded interpretation of what i said. I'm not expecting that of you even though you do have a habit of writing essays on semantics.
What are you still ****ing talking about Jones at heavyweight for?

You can't "mention Jones' effectiveness at heavy", because he's never fought at heavy. He's not a heavyweight, so why are you imagining what he might be like in that division? You're just talking out of your ass. You'll mock me for apparently never seeing any of Tito's fights, while simultaneously you are marking guys down based on imaginary fights in divisions they've never even competed in.

And Jones doesn't need to employ ground and pound as the major part of every fight plan. He's not a one-dimensional fighter like Tito was, he has a lot of options and his physicality works best when fighting from range. But be honest, scurla. What LHW is comfortable when Jones is on top of him throwing down elbows?

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Old 08-05-2012, 10:30 AM   #40
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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I would like to see Sonnen destroy Jones one day.
Yeah, I think that would be a way bigger fight then Machida or Shogun. People underrate Sonnen, he has won 5 of 7 rounds against Silva.

I would favor Jones for sure, but Sonnen can also sell the fight and make it a huge event.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:48 AM   #41
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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No i'm not. My opinion is based on what i saw in those mens fights. GnP is GnP which ever way you want to paint it. If Jones GnP was that good people would be talking about it the same way we talked about Fedor's. Therefore your comparison in my eyes is completely invalid.
Again Tito finished more of his fights with soild GnP. Laugh at it all you want but Ken Tito WAS a super fight and Ken was giving the worst beating of his life. If you was watching MMA circa 2002/3 you'd know that and would't be making light of it just to make a semantic and specious point about what you perceive to be a more varied GnP.
When Jones does what Vovchancyn did to Inoue who he left in a hospital for 3 months with a swollen brain let me know. As the last i checked Shogun survived 5 rounds with your apparent 'flick of the wrist' on the ground.
The fight was stopped in the 3rd.

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I don't know what Shogun's level of conditioning was for this fight, because of how hard he worked off his back in the 1st round after being dropped. Jones almost/did win the fight with a Hail Marry. The opening knee landed by Jones was the biggest factor of the fight. That blow almost ended the bout, and Shogun was exhausted at the end of the 1st. The fight couldn't have gone better for Jones.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #42
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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The fight was stopped in the 3rd.

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Shit man my memory is slipping
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:53 AM   #43
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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Shit man my memory is slipping
No, you just didn't watch the fight.

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Old 08-05-2012, 11:58 AM   #44
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

Jones is so hard to put in proper perspective because of the timing of his career. Jones has come along when the division's best are guys that made their names beating each other up 8+ years ago. These guys are still better than the up and comers, but are no longer at their peaks. Sure, ripping through them is worth something. It's just hard to say how much with so few contemporary fighters near the top.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:56 PM   #45
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

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Jones is so hard to put in proper perspective because of the timing of his career. Jones has come along when the division's best are guys that made their names beating each other up 8+ years ago. These guys are still better than the up and comers, but are no longer at their peaks. Sure, ripping through them is worth something. It's just hard to say how much with so few contemporary fighters near the top.
You are right, some say that Jones is the best LHW ever because of the names he has beaten in a short period of time but really, it is hard to say.
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