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Old 08-05-2012, 01:01 AM   #31
MAG1965
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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Beating Leonard in Montreal was just "ok"? Yea MAG, real objective. Let's make excuses for Ray when he was in his prime and allow none when Duran went on to compete with much bigger, fresher men.
Ray was not prime at all I don't think. And I have been consistent with saying this, since I have been saying this same statement for almost 4 years on ESB, and for 30 years in normal boxing discussions. Ray was in his second defense of his first title. And the one thing he admits to not being complete about is fighting his fight. He said Duran made him so mad he wanted to beat him at his own game. Once Ray boxed he beat Roberto easily. Roberto taught Ray the thing he needed to be a complete fighter, and to play the boxing game inside and outside of the ring, and Ray exhibited the lesson in the second Duran fight.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:39 AM   #32
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Default Re: Duran's Defense

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Ray was not prime at all I don't think. And I have been consistent with saying this, since I have been saying this same statement for almost 4 years on ESB, and for 30 years in normal boxing discussions. Ray was in his second defense of his first title. And the one thing he admits to not being complete about is fighting his fight. He said Duran made him so mad he wanted to beat him at his own game. Once Ray boxed he beat Roberto easily. Roberto taught Ray the thing he needed to be a complete fighter, and to play the boxing game inside and outside of the ring, and Ray exhibited the lesson in the second Duran fight.
Yes MAG, it's almost all you ever post about; how Ray, despite his Ring IQ and natural speed advantage, was too dumb to switch gears and "just box" against a master infighter in Duran while losing over 15 rounds, and how Roberto's weakened condition isn't a valid aspect of analyzing the rematch, where Leonard is suddenly no longer green.

For some reason you can never accept the notion Leonard couldn't escape the ropes because Duran made him fight there, whether Leonard wanted to or not, as Dundee admitted post-fight. The first 3 rounds where Leonard was maintaining range saw him get eventually rocked by a mid-range hook, and from there he knew he had to stand his ground. Only when he beat Duran outside the ring did his cute style ever see success.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:39 AM   #33
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Duran's third fight against DeJesus was a fine defensive performance against a skilled opponent who seemed to have his number with the left hook. I believe Duran was told to box in the early rounds and he showcased that pressure fighting was far from all that he knew.

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Obviously his natural fighter's instincts always played a part in him being able to avoid as many blows as he could with his aggressive style but there were fights of his that displayed a level of skill that couldn't have been obtained through mere talent alone. It's difficult to imagine the likes of Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel being no other than cheerleaders in his corner, they must have had some input.
That mightve been Duran`s finest all around performance. He had come of age as a fighter. The patience was there and the poise and experiance.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:58 AM   #34
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That mightve been Duran`s finest all around performance. He had come of age as a fighter. The patience was there and the poise and experiance.
ETM,

Correct, at 135 lbs.

Roberto's finest defensive perormance.

Esteban De Jesus III
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:26 AM   #35
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I know I'm always shoe-horning Napoles in wherever I can, but I wanted to say, he's one of the only fighters on Duran's level (earlier career Napoles) when it comes to offensive counter punching with slick head movement and snappy shots. I can't separate them.

Interesting. I've never thought of them being similar that way. I could see it a bit I guess. Napoles just seems more purposeful in his defesnse, with Duran, he just seemed to chrage in and like he had a script, just kept moving out of the way like 2 inches away from the shot. The way he slipped Ray Leonard's left hooks, who else had been able to do that until that point? Amazing. Even if not totally textbook...

And yes I agree Dejesus is his most 'technical' performance. Even in Leonard I he made certain mistakes, the way he fought Dejesus in ther third one was more 'correct' in a technical sense.
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