Misconception about the Ali/Lyle fight.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

May 16, 1975

Before Referee - Ferd Hernandez (non-scoring referee) stopped this bout at 1:08 of the
11th Round.

Scorecards;
* Judge -Bill Kipp..................49-43 (7-1-2 in Rounds) - Ron Lyle
* Judge - Art Lurie................46-45 (5-4-1 in Rounds) - Ron Lyle
* Judge - John Mangriciana.....46-46 (4-4-2 in Rounds) - EVEN

Of course, nothing was better than Chickie Ferrara going crazy on the Referee - Ferd
Hernandez after the stoppage.

Especially the interview, when the 'little' Italian Trainer told Howard Cosell about the quick stoppage,
'That wasn't Kosher'.

Should it have been stopped. Muhammad Ali did throw '30' unanswered punches on an
'obviously stunned' Ron Lyle, who was backed into the corner by the Champion, but
Lyle was upright and Ali was 'gassed'.

The obvious answer.

Don King and Muhammad Ali already had a good portion of the money for the upcoming bout
versus Joe Bugner in Malaysia, set for June 30, 1975 (7-weeks later).

No way was Ron Lyle winning that fight. No way !

You figure it out.

Pepe,have a good look at Lyle in the eleventh. There was NO way that he could even raise his hands to defend himself,let alone fight Ali back. The stoppage was legit and,most importantly,warranted.

[ETM]

I agree with the OP. Ali was clowning and generally fuking around in this fight. I think he came out with his mirage tactic. Nobody laughed it was a bad performance.

He turned it on and got the win when he had to.

[Senor Pepe']

Stevie G.

Both, Yes and No.

No doubt, that Ron Lyle was 'more' exhausted than hurt.

Though I do agree with Ron's Manager, Chickie Ferrera.

'This isn't a 4-Round Fight, this is a World Championship Fight'.

Muhammad Ali after a very good 8th Round, was 'out-hustled' in
both Rounds 9 and 10.

And, though the 'stoppage' could be deemed 'fair', it was Ali who was looking
for help from Referee Ferd Hernandez to 'stop the bout'.

Chickie Ferrera was good after the fight though. 'One tough little bastard'.

[junior-soprano]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

I'd just like to address a myth that seems to have sprung up over the last few years. It's regarding Ron Lyle's performance in his fight against Muhammad Ali. No disrespect to big Ron,whom I've always admired,but his challenge to Ali is overrated in some quarters. Yes...........He was ahead on the cards going into the eleventh round,but this was mainly because Muhammad was in one of his lazy moods,doing virtually nothing except for rope-a-dope and posing. In consequence,Lyle was totting up the points on workrate. Some have this image of him outclassing Ali,which was n't the case.

I also get quite appalled when the odd poster questions the fight being stopped. Lyle was defenceless at the time.

yes indeed. when ali caught him with that big right hand and after that lyle was not defending himself so the referee made the right descision

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Stevie G.

Both, Yes and No.

No doubt, that Ron Lyle was 'more' exhausted than hurt.

Though I do agree with Ron's Manager, Chickie Ferrera.

'This isn't a 4-Round Fight, this is a World Championship Fight'.

Muhammad Ali after a very good 8th Round, was 'out-hustled' in
both Rounds 9 and 10.

And, though the 'stoppage' could be deemed 'fair', it was Ali who was looking
for help from Referee Ferd Hernandez to 'stop the bout'.

Chickie Ferrera was good after the fight though. 'One tough little bastard'.

Ali was looking for help because he did n't want Lyle to get seriously hurt. Just as he beckoned the referee in when he had Jerry Quarry hurt in their second fight. A lot gets made of Muhammad's cruelty towards Floyd Patterson and Ernie Terrel,and he was indeed being cruel,but conveniently forget his compassionate moments later on in his career.

[Senor Pepe']

Stevie G,

I agree on the Jerry Quarry bout, as that was a correct and sportsmanlike move.

But with Ron Lyle, the guy was an ex-convict, and was a tough dude.

And Ferd Hernandez was an experienced Referee, not some guy off the Strip in
Las Vegas.

I think the Referee could have seperated the two for moment, to take a look at Ron, then wave on the action.

Chickie Ferrera was correct, this was a World Championship Fight.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Stevie G,

I agree on the Jerry Quarry bout, as that was a correct and sportsmanlike move.

But with Ron Lyle, the guy was an ex-convict, and was a tough dude.

And Ferd Hernandez was an experienced Referee, not some guy off the Strip in
Las Vegas.

I think the Referee could have seperated the two for moment, to take a look at Ron, then wave on the action.

Chickie Ferrera was correct, this was a World Championship Fight.

Did you notice Ron's legs ? He was like a drunk at closing time ! It was a monumental effort for him to even keep his hands up. Was n't firing back at Ali. It was so.............so obvious that the ref made the right move in stopping it.

[Senor Pepe']

No complaint from me on the stoppage.

Either way, it was just.

But look at the tape after the stoppage.

Ali walked to his corner on 'drained legs' and draped his arms over the top strand
of the ring ropes. He was 'gassed'.

Lyle, walked back to his corner with some wobble, but he was smiling, and just shook
his head in disbelief.

[TheGreatA]

Ali was getting caught up in his "rope-a-dope" strategy which he promoted heavily during this period as some type of innovative, unique strategy that had renewed the whole outlook on boxing.

Lyle knew what he was getting into and unlike Foreman, simply went for a points win and refused to play Ali's "game", although he was still getting "played" by himself as Lyle never had the stamina to go 15 rounds, no matter the pace. Thus his best chance would've probably been an early round knockout, improbable as it seems.

Once Lyle tired, Ali struck. It was far from a great win, supposed to be a warm-up fight since Lyle was not so highly regarded coming off a loss to then unknown Jimmy Young.

Ali was once again convinced by the greatness of his strategy which allowed him to be lazy without having paid a price but it may have cost him in his next fight against Joe Frazier, a fight in which Ali absorbed a great amount of punishment on the ropes.

[Senor Pepe']

The Great A,

Ron Lyle didn't even deserve a World Heavyweight Title shot going into that
May 1975 Las Vegas bout.

In February, 'Little' Jimmy Young 'pitched' a near shut-out over Ron Lyle in a
10-Round Hawaii bout.

Scorecards { 8-1-1 / 7-2-1 / 6-0-4 } in Rounds.

Ron Lyle really only won 'one' round in that fight, and that was the round in which
Jimmy gave to Ronnie, because he was laughing at how easy the 'non-fight' had
become.

[TheGreatA]

Lyle did not deserve a shot necessarily but considering that Ali defended his title 3 times during a 3 month period, he himself deserved to have easier opponents in between, while preparing to face a more deserving challenger in Joe Frazier. As we know, Lyle wasn't such an easy opponent after all and went onto be known as one of the better heavyweights of that time period.

Young was poison to Lyle who just couldn't get off any punches on him at all. Young would counter him, tie him up and maneuver Lyle to positions where he could not land in the clinches. With his cleverness he knew every move that the late starter Lyle would ever make before he made them.

Lyle did possess power and strength that made him a threat to most other opponents. Young was simply able to deal very well with those particular attributes, as he later showed against Foreman.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

Lyle did not deserve a shot necessarily but considering that Ali defended his title 3 times during a 3 month period, he himself deserved to have easier opponents in between, while preparing to face a more deserving challenger in Joe Frazier. As we know, Lyle wasn't such an easy opponent after all and went onto be known as one of the better heavyweights of that time period.

Young was poison to Lyle who just couldn't get off any punches on him at all. Young would counter him, tie him up and maneuver Lyle to positions where he could not land in the clinches. With his cleverness he knew every move that the late starter Lyle would ever make before he made them.

Lyle did possess power and strength that made him a threat to most other opponents. Young was simply able to deal very well with those particular attributes, as he later showed against Foreman.

Ron was a tough....tough man. With limitations in skill.