How would JDS beating Overeem and Cormier compare to Fedor beating Nog and CC?

[Kittikasem]

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

Most definitely. I'm no where near dropping Barnett and Couture for anyone else at the moment.

Couture at HW?

Wins - Sylvia, Gonzaga, Rizzo (twice), Randleman, Belfort, Smith

Losses - Barnett, Rodriguez, Lesnar, Nogueira

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I'm not so sure that he is a lock for 5th spot as you do. That record (IMO) doesn't put him so far clear of the competition. Right now, Cigano's record is much better than that, for starters.

Consider someone like Werdum...

Wins - Fedor, Overeem, Aleks Emelianenko, Bigfoot, Gonzaga (twice), Nelson

Losses - Nogueira, Kharitonov, Arlovski, JDS, Overeem



IMO, Werdum has not only beaten slightly better fighters overall, but he has more wins in that division, and doesn't lose anything to Couture in terms of his losses as both Werdum and Couture only ever lost to other top fighters.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by Kittikasem

Couture at HW?

Wins - Sylvia, Gonzaga, Rizzo (twice), Randleman, Belfort, Smith

Losses - Barnett, Rodriguez, Lesnar, Nogueira

---

I'm not so sure that he is a lock for 5th spot as you do. That record (IMO) doesn't put him so far clear of the competition. Right now, Cigano's record is much better than that, for starters.

Consider someone like Werdum...

Wins - Fedor, Overeem, Aleks Emelianenko, Bigfoot, Gonzaga (twice), Nelson

Losses - Nogueira, Kharitonov, Arlovski, JDS, Overeem



IMO, Werdum has not only beaten slightly better fighters overall, but he has more wins in that division, and doesn't lose anything to Couture in terms of his losses as both Werdum and Couture only ever lost to other top fighters.

I have Cigano 4th.

I've dropped Couture to 6th, but I'll give Werdum's resume a glance. In regards to heavyweight rankings, the footing gets weaker with each place after my first 2. For Randy I still hold the Rizzo wins in high regard, and also his defeat of Maurice Smith. The Smith victory doesn't look like much on paper, but it was big when it happened. Remember, Coleman couldn't do it. There was also Randleman, and the domination of Sylvia and Gonzaga.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by Kittikasem

Couture at HW?

Wins - Sylvia, Gonzaga, Rizzo (twice), Randleman, Belfort, Smith

Losses - Barnett, Rodriguez, Lesnar, Nogueira

---

I'm not so sure that he is a lock for 5th spot as you do. That record (IMO) doesn't put him so far clear of the competition. Right now, Cigano's record is much better than that, for starters.

Consider someone like Werdum...

Wins - Fedor, Overeem, Aleks Emelianenko, Bigfoot, Gonzaga (twice), Nelson

Losses - Nogueira, Kharitonov, Arlovski, JDS, Overeem



IMO, Werdum has not only beaten slightly better fighters overall, but he has more wins in that division, and doesn't lose anything to Couture in terms of his losses as both Werdum and Couture only ever lost to other top fighters.

I gave Werdum's resume a glance over, and there is nothing there to change my mind. I have a lot of respect for Werdum, and he may go on to take the position where I currently have Couture; but I can't say he deserves it at this point.

I don't think that Werdum lost to Overeem in their rematch, but that still doesn't do it for me. I've been highly critical of Overeem's mma career. I respect Overeem's abilities, but he is no where near being an all time great in mma.

I don't count Werdum's performance against Silva as a big win. I didn't see anyone winning that boring affair. That fight was horrible. The fight also drove me crazy because either fighter could have won it by throwing the jab. Big Foot kept trying these uppercuts from a stupid range when all he had to do was jab Werdum in the face. That fight may have well been a draw.

I'm sticking with Randy on this one. Werdum is still active. He could go on to change my mind. I'm sure that is what he thinking about.

[Kittikasem]

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

I gave Werdum's resume a glance over, and there is nothing there to change my mind. I have a lot of respect for Werdum, and he may go on to take the position where I currently have Couture; but I can't say he deserves it at this point.

I don't think that Werdum lost to Overeem in their rematch, but that still doesn't do it for me. I've been highly critical of Overeem's mma career. I respect Overeem's abilities, but he is no where near being an all time great in mma.

I don't count Werdum's performance against Silva as a big win. I didn't see anyone winning that boring affair. That fight was horrible. The fight also drove me crazy because either fighter could have won it by throwing the jab. Big Foot kept trying these uppercuts from a stupid range when all he had to do was jab Werdum in the face. That fight may have well been a draw.

I'm sticking with Randy on this one. Werdum is still active. He could go on to change my mind. I'm sure that is what he thinking about.

Couture at HW

Wins - Sylvia, Gonzaga, Rizzo (twice), Randleman, Belfort, Smith

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Consider someone like Werdum...

Wins - Fedor, Overeem, Aleks Emelianenko, Bigfoot, Gonzaga (twice), Nelson

---


They both have 7 top wins at hw IMO.

For me, the Fedor and Aleks that Werdum beat would beat everyone on Randy's list.

Couture beat Gonzaga once, Werdum beat him twice.

Everyone on Werdum's list beats Maurice Smith.

Overeem wasn't a great win for Werdum, but the Dutchman had just stopped Kharitonov and would defeat Belfort in his next fight.

Bigfoot and Nelson are good but they aren't elite heavyweights, I'd probably say Randy's wins over Rizzo and Randleman are better.


I think it's close whichever way you cut it. I'll stick with Werdum because of the wins over the Emelianenkos and because I think the current version of Werdum beats any version of Randy, but it is closer than I first thought I will admit.