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View Poll Results: Who do you rank higher at heavyweight?
Fabricio WERDUM 7 41.18%
Randy COUTURE 10 58.82%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-09-2012, 07:36 PM   #16
greathamza
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Default Re: Who do you rank higher at heavyweight: Werdum or Couture?

Couture was an underdog going into some of the fights that ended up being his best wins and he did defend the title and he had it twice to even at an old age Werdum has done some good things in his career but he didnt win the "big fights" that Couture has won therefore i place Couture ahead of Werdum but if Werdum could get a couple of good win he would pass Couture
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:17 AM   #17
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Default Re: Who do you rank higher at heavyweight: Werdum or Couture?

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Originally Posted by Kittikasem View Post
Thanks for all the good responses Rek, Stoo, Vic.

I don't have time to get into a proper discussion now, but I would advise against saying Randy primarily because he was a champion and Werdum has not been. IMO, this has a lot more to do with circumstance, organization, competition, opportunity etc than it has to do with ability.

Consider that Bobby Southworth won and defended the Strikeforce title (as have Shields, Jacare and Rockhold since) while guys like Jon Fitch, Josh Koscheck, Gray Maynard, Chael Sonnen, and Kenny Florian etc have all been unable to win UFC gold (never mind defend it) because the organization is so much tougher.

Does that automatically mean Southworth and Shields are greater fighters than Fitch and Florian?

I really do not believe that the best version of Randy would have done any better in the Pride 2006 Openweight Grand Prix than Werdum did (beating Overeem, losing to Big Nog), and I really do believe that the best version of Werdum could have won UFC gold against Sylvia and defended it against Gonzaga (but wouldn't have lost it to Lesnar).

Circumstances shouldn't obscure a fair assessment of them as fighters.
A further example would be that Tito Ortiz defended the UFC title five times by beating opposition of this calibre: Kondo, Tanner, Sinosic, Matyushenko, Shamrock.

Rua was never even the de facto Pride mw champion, yet he still beat Rampage, L'il Nog, Overeem twice, Arona and Randleman in that organization.

Rua >>> Ortiz as a lhw, so gold and defences are not the most important factor IMO.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: Who do you rank higher at heavyweight: Werdum or Couture?

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Originally Posted by greathamza View Post
Couture was an underdog going into some of the fights that ended up being his best wins and he did defend the title and he had it twice to even at an old age Werdum has done some good things in his career but he didnt win the "big fights" that Couture has won therefore i place Couture ahead of Werdum but if Werdum could get a couple of good win he would pass Couture
Snapping Fedor's unbeaten decade by 1st round sub = Werdum being a huge underdog and a win in an extremely "big fight".
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:49 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who do you rank higher at heavyweight: Werdum or Couture?

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Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
And tbh Iīm not impressed by Werdum wins.....Overeem was clearly nothing like he is today, Fedor already past prime, and I wouldnīt say Aleks is a better win than Rizzo, canīt see it....
Overeem wasn't what he was today, but he was still a good win. He had TKO'd Kharitonov in his previous fight and then beat Belfort in his next fight, so he was clearly still a high-level fighter beating tough comp.

Fedor was past-prime for sure, but he had still shown the power and skills to brutally finish Arlovski and Rogers not long before, so he wasn't so far declined that beating him wasn't a great win, it was. Fedor dropped and hurt Werdum remember, he didn't just go out there and fight like an old man. Werdum beat him by technique, it deserves credit even though Fedor was not the fighter he once was. I believe the Fedor of that night would probably still beat most if not all of the best guys Couture ever beat at heavyweight.

I think Aleks would've beaten Rizzo, but that's just an opinion, can't really prove it. I think Aleks was better.
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