Sammy Mandell - an ATG ??

Vic-JofreBRASIL · 08-13-2012, 05:15 PM

Well, he was the best LW of the world for a while, most of the people would say no, he isn´t an ATG.
But I wouldn´t have a problem with anyone calling him one.
Solid resume, good consistency.....tell me your opinion about Samuel Mandella.

He is not too mentioned around here....let´s discuss his place on the boxing history.

lufcrazy · 08-13-2012, 05:49 PM

I rate him pretty highly. top 10 LW, great resume in the division: Kansas, McLarnin, Canzoneri, Petrolle, Terris, J Dundee, Bernstein (x2), McGraw, Seeman (x2), H Brown (x2) - Terris (D), Bernstein (D) - Goodrich (L), Singer (L). Spent 4 years as the best LW in the world.

Plus he beat Jackie Fields up at WW.

So yeah, definitely an ATG.

LittleRed · 08-13-2012, 05:55 PM

Wasn't he a Blackburn fighter?

WhyYouLittle · 08-13-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleRed

Wasn't he a Blackburn fighter?

Yes, I think so.

He sure was tricky. Had some big heads on the wall too Canzoneri, Mclarnin, Petrolle... He was kind of unlucky to peak between Benny Leonard's generation and Tony Canzoneri's (his style wasn't very appealing either. Not explosive like Mclarnin or poetic like Canzoneri. Not even textbook perfect like Ross's, which itself was kinda underappreciated for a good time). Other fighters from his generation, like Sid Terris and Jackie Fields, are highly praised by the ones who witnessed them and he was very dominant until Mclarnin showed up and spoiled the whole thing. As for the thread's question... I think he is an ATG. I have him somewher between 11-15. Not firmly though. We are talking about the LW division after all.

lufcrazy · 08-13-2012, 06:25 PM

I actually rank him above Tony who suffered quite a lot of defeats in the division as a prime fighter.

lufcrazy · 08-13-2012, 06:25 PM

I'll tell you something for nothing, you want an underrated Lightweight, you better check out Welsey Ramey.

WhyYouLittle · 08-13-2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I'll tell you something for nothing, you want an underrated Lightweight, you better check out Welsey Ramey.

Possibly the worst case of bad timing in the division. I don't know how the hell the guy managed to NOT hold a title. Maybe it was the funny name.

lufcrazy · 08-13-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhyYouLittle

Possibly the worst case of bad timing in the division. I don't know how the hell the guy managed to NOT hold a title. Maybe it was the funny name.

He seemed to beat everyone around. Awesome win list.

WhyYouLittle · 08-13-2012, 10:24 PM

Yeah. I don't know how the hell this guy slips under radar. He beaten two of the most famous fighters of his generation, both ATG, and I don't even know how many champions, sometimes repeatedly. Get some good points for longevity too. Had an extremely clean record until the very end of his career.

EDIT: Messed that up. I was sure he had beaten Mclarnin too. But it was 'just' Tony Canzoneri. So that's 1 of the most famous fighters of his gen which was an ATG.

sweet_scientist · 08-14-2012, 12:25 AM

Sammy Mandell is definitely one of the most underrated greats, which is weird because some of his best performances are on film for all to see (McLarnin, Canzoneri).

He did fade pretty bad towards the end of his career I suppose, which could account for becoming somewhat overlooked...

Boxed Ears · 08-14-2012, 01:11 AM

It's funny how I see people saying things like "Calzaghe is an ATG but has a pretty weak resume for an ATG." but then you look at Mandell's resume and people are so confused about why he's rarely mentioned they have to ask if he even is an ATG or not. I blame Howie Mandel for this.

sweet_scientist · 08-14-2012, 01:35 AM

If only his peak coincided with Barney Ross', we could have possibly had the greatest boxing chess match on film in the first half of the 20th Century.

WhyYouLittle · 08-14-2012, 02:01 PM

[quote=sweet_scientist;13585823]Sammy Mandell is definitely one of the most underrated greats, which is weird because some of his best performances are on film for all to see (McLarnin, Canzoneri).

In fact that might have kinda hurt him. As I mentioned, he wasn't all that flashy. If Barney Ross with that beautiful textbook form of his was underapreciated for his lack of 'pop', imagine Mandell. As baffling as his style was, the best a casual fan can tell about Mandell is that he was fast.

burt bienstock · 08-14-2012, 04:30 PM

[quote=WhyYouLittle;13588661]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

Sammy Mandell is definitely one of the most underrated greats, which is weird because some of his best performances are on film for all to see (McLarnin, Canzoneri).

In fact that might have kinda hurt him. As I mentioned, he wasn't all that flashy. If Barney Ross with that beautiful textbook form of his was underapreciated for his lack of 'pop', imagine Mandell. As baffling as his style was, the best a casual fan can tell about Mandell is that he was fast.

WYL, Sammy Mandell was a helluva boxer, much in the style of a later day Ken Buchanan...But he was not to be compared to Barney Ross as an alltime great LW...Barney Ross aside from his text book boxing had the ability to trade with much harder punchers than he, and most likely was NEVER FLOORED ONCE...Ross had an iron chin much like the later WW Kid Gavilan.and was NEVER kod in 82 bouts against the best punchers of his era, McLarnin, Canzoneri, Billy Petrolle, Henry Armstrong, and the great punching MW Ceferino Garcia,whom the smaller Ross beat twice, once when Barney Ross had a broken hand...NO WW has it easy against a prime Barney Ross...

Legend X · 08-14-2012, 04:33 PM

Yes, he is an ATG.

08-13-2012, 05:15 PM	#1
Vic-JofreBRASIL Vic East Side VIP Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Santos Posts: 13,837 vCash: 1166	Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? Well, he was the best LW of the world for a while, most of the people would say no, he isn´t an ATG. But I wouldn´t have a problem with anyone calling him one. Solid resume, good consistency.....tell me your opinion about Samuel Mandella. He is not too mentioned around here....let´s discuss his place on the boxing history.
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08-13-2012, 05:49 PM	#2
lufcrazy requiescat in pace East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England, Up North Posts: 22,694 vCash: 330	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? I rate him pretty highly. top 10 LW, great resume in the division: Kansas, McLarnin, Canzoneri, Petrolle, Terris, J Dundee, Bernstein (x2), McGraw, Seeman (x2), H Brown (x2) - Terris (D), Bernstein (D) - Goodrich (L), Singer (L). Spent 4 years as the best LW in the world. Plus he beat Jackie Fields up at WW. So yeah, definitely an ATG.
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08-13-2012, 05:55 PM	#3
LittleRed Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Yoknapatawpha Posts: 2,603 vCash: 475	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? Wasn't he a Blackburn fighter?
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08-13-2012, 06:25 PM	#5
lufcrazy requiescat in pace East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England, Up North Posts: 22,694 vCash: 330	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? I actually rank him above Tony who suffered quite a lot of defeats in the division as a prime fighter.
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08-13-2012, 06:25 PM	#6
lufcrazy requiescat in pace East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England, Up North Posts: 22,694 vCash: 330	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? I'll tell you something for nothing, you want an underrated Lightweight, you better check out Welsey Ramey.
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08-13-2012, 10:24 PM	#9
WhyYouLittle Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 222 vCash: 500	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? Yeah. I don't know how the hell this guy slips under radar. He beaten two of the most famous fighters of his generation, both ATG, and I don't even know how many champions, sometimes repeatedly. Get some good points for longevity too. Had an extremely clean record until the very end of his career. EDIT: Messed that up. I was sure he had beaten Mclarnin too. But it was 'just' Tony Canzoneri. So that's 1 of the most famous fighters of his gen which was an ATG. Last edited by WhyYouLittle; 08-13-2012 at 11:22 PM.
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08-14-2012, 12:25 AM	#10
sweet_scientist Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,300 vCash: 1000	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? Sammy Mandell is definitely one of the most underrated greats, which is weird because some of his best performances are on film for all to see (McLarnin, Canzoneri). He did fade pretty bad towards the end of his career I suppose, which could account for becoming somewhat overlooked...
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08-14-2012, 01:11 AM	#11
Boxed Ears Lowering Post Count East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brunoilia, Hehsland Posts: 51,277 vCash: 7500	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? It's funny how I see people saying things like "Calzaghe is an ATG but has a pretty weak resume for an ATG." but then you look at Mandell's resume and people are so confused about why he's rarely mentioned they have to ask if he even is an ATG or not. I blame Howie Mandel for this.
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08-14-2012, 01:35 AM	#12
sweet_scientist Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,300 vCash: 1000	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? If only his peak coincided with Barney Ross', we could have possibly had the greatest boxing chess match on film in the first half of the 20th Century.
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08-14-2012, 02:01 PM	#13
WhyYouLittle Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 222 vCash: 500	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? [quote=sweet_scientist;13585823]Sammy Mandell is definitely one of the most underrated greats, which is weird because some of his best performances are on film for all to see (McLarnin, Canzoneri). In fact that might have kinda hurt him. As I mentioned, he wasn't all that flashy. If Barney Ross with that beautiful textbook form of his was underapreciated for his lack of 'pop', imagine Mandell. As baffling as his style was, the best a casual fan can tell about Mandell is that he was fast.
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08-14-2012, 04:33 PM	#15
Legend X Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London Posts: 3,105 vCash: 1000	Re: Sammy Mandell - an ATG ?? Yes, he is an ATG.
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