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Old 08-14-2012, 03:21 AM   #16
mcvey
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
One should never confuse what a fighter says in the press with reality. The Freddie Fuducua match was Franklin’s 5th professional fight. Here’s the truth. From 1940-1942. Franklin won 20 matches in a row, including KO’s over Simon and Musto. Louis gave title shots to Simon and Muston in 1941. Franklin also Ko’d Sheppard, Bivins, and Reddish during this time same time period. Franklin was very qualified.


Franklin was a puncher, and IMO Louis could have easily made a match with him, but opted not to. The risk vs. reward was not in Louis favor. One loss back then did not take a man out of the picture for many in the bum of the month club.

Elmer Ray was another fighter who was worthy of a title match with Louis. In Louis 26 title defenses, he only fought two black men, one of whom was sick ( John Henry Lewis ) , and the other really made him look bad by flooring him twice, and winning the majority of the rounds in both matches ( Walcott ).

I think this post was eminently predictable.
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:23 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
This from an interview in the rum up to the Buddy Baer rematch.

"I'd fight Lem Franklin with the greatest of pleasure. Roxy and Chappie don't think much of him, but I know he's improved. I keep track of all them fellas. I'm going to see Franklin fight Bob Pastor in Febuary. I've seen him two or three times. I saw him lose a six round decision to Freddie Fiducia in the Garden. He hasn't hit Freddie yet but that was four years ago and Freddie knew to much for him. He's a right-hand puncher who depends on punching and has a brittle right hand. I hope that right hand stays in good repair and he keeps them fellas out until September. I'll be looking for an appointment around that time."

Pastor, not a puncher, stopped him of course, then he went waaay back. Anyone got any details? Needs looking into that one.

Anyway, Franklin is someone who is occasionally mentioned as a fighter Louis ducked. Louis seemed very keen.
I would suggest that this result puts Franklin in proper perspective vis a vis his being ducked by Louis.Thanks to all who put up the info.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
One loss back then did not take a man out of the picture for many in the bum of the month club.


He lost three in a row including two early KO's.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:06 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Bob Pastor an NYU product was a helluva boxer spoiler who was fearless...Beat just about anyone bigger than him, except Joe Louis, UNTIL the night of Sept. 6.1940 when
the great fiery LH champion Billy Conn gave Bob Pastor a thrashing stopping Pastor in the 13th round...What does this say about Pittsburgh's second greatest fighter, Billy Conn. ?
Plenty. Lots.

You are sure Conn ranks above Burley though?
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
One should never confuse what a fighter says in the press with reality. The Freddie Fuducua match was Franklin’s 5th professional fight. Here’s the truth. From 1940-1942. Franklin won 20 matches in a row, including KO’s over Simon and Musto. Louis gave title shots to Simon and Muston in 1941. Franklin also Ko’d Sheppard, Bivins, and Reddish during this time same time period. Franklin was very qualified.


Franklin was a puncher, and IMO Louis could have easily made a match with him, but opted not to. The risk vs. reward was not in Louis favor. One loss back then did not take a man out of the picture for many in the bum of the month club.

Elmer Ray was another fighter who was worthy of a title match with Louis. In Louis 26 title defenses, he only fought two black men, one of whom was sick ( John Henry Lewis ) , and the other really made him look bad by flooring him twice, and winning the majority of the rounds in both matches ( Walcott ).
Franklin fought Musto and Simon after Louis had already stopped them. 4 months later he was KO'd by Pastor. He wasn't exactly a Harry Wills looming around the title picture for a decade. He had one great year in 1941, a year when Louis had already defended his title against 7 men, and that was it.

Last edited by TheGreatA; 08-14-2012 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:45 AM   #21
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Franklin fought Musto after Louis had already stopped them.
Why am I not surprised?
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:50 AM   #22
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Why am I not surprised?
Musto and Simon I intended to say. Especially in the case of Simon who had received a monumental beating and was only given another title shot later because he was willing to fight for free in a charity bout. Taking them out was impressive but let's not forget that Louis had already done a job on them earlier and few boxers were ever the same after a bout with Louis.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:51 AM   #23
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

Yeah.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:54 AM   #24
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by WhyYouLittle View Post
Nice thread.

Franklin had a better run, but almost the same thing happened to Turkey Thompson. Thompson had a 12-0 run with 10 stoppages beating a fading Teddy Yarosz in the process until he bumped into Pastor and lost twice to him. Bivins dropped a SD to Pastor too.
Cheeky spoiling bastard.
This was an era of spoilers.

Whenever a contender apeared to be getting a bit of momentum behind them, and it started to look like they might be able to pose a serious challenge to Louis, somebody upset them.
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

Pastor needed to hit the canvas sometimes to get going:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH5KYZ94V8w[/ame]


He was down 6 times against Turkey Thompson and twice against Bivins in the first round and went onto win against both. He did not repeat the feat here though.
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Old 08-14-2012, 06:16 AM   #26
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

Yeah, Louis just couldn't get across after he had Pastor reeling though which is not far from unheard of. Joe still predicted the KO between rounds however, so he could see Paster was on his way out.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:15 AM   #27
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
This was an era of spoilers.

Whenever a contender apeared to be getting a bit of momentum behind them, and it started to look like they might be able to pose a serious challenge to Louis, somebody upset them.
Yeah, no kidding. Simon, Sheppard, Musto, Reddish... gah it was like hurdling.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Plenty. Lots.

You are sure Conn ranks above Burley though?
Good question MC...First of all I thought Burley came from Bessemer Pa.?
That is where he was born ?
On a P4p basis Burley ranks with anyone not named Harry Greb...But the Billy Conn at his middleweight peak who incidentally never fought one amateur bout, beat such top fighters as Teddy Yarosz, Young Corbett2,
Solly Krieger, Fred Apostoli, Babe Risko, Vince Dundee, Oscar Rankin etc,all
of these guys Conn beat when he was 18-20 years old...Billy had a "brave"
manager johnny Ray who was once a stablemate of Harry Greb, and literally threw young Billy to the wolves to sink or swim...And Billy Conn swam...
Then as a LH Conn beat Gus Dorazio, Gus Lesnevich, Melio Bettina the
tough awkward southpaw who I once saw fight jimmy Bivins to a draw...,
Conn then beat a tough young left-hooker Lee Savold and then kod the
terrific boxer Bob Pastor,and the Finn Gunnar Barlund a tough HW.
Then on June 18, 1941 Billy Conn almost beat the immortal Joe Louis
weighing but 169 pounds for that bout...This Billy Conn I rank with Gene Tunney and Ezzard Charles as the best LHs ever...
So I rank Conn over Burley cause Billy was BORN in Pittsburgh...
P.S. My dad saw Charley Burley ko a guy in NY in 1942...Burley was so good that he was never invited back to New York...My dad was very impressed...Cheers...
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:14 AM   #29
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

Yeah, your dad saw McQuillan (sp?). JG was at that fight too. If ever Burley needed to carry a guy...
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:16 AM   #30
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Default Re: Bob Pastor eliminated Lem Franklin from contention for a crack at Louis

Yeah, Conn's victories over Teddy Yarosz, as close as they were, considering how green he was, were pretty damn impressive. His manager was almost as crazy as Charles's. That ultimately worked more then well for Conn though. There's no way he could have did as well as he did against Louis if he didn't have balls.
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