James toney: The best I've faced

[PhillyPhan69]

Originally Posted by turbotime

When you make it look as easy as he did, apparently it makes you one-dimensional Jones could K you TFO or win every round of the fight.

Crazy how underrated his skills are by the casual fans.

Turbo you have been a nice addition to this forum, in spite of your blatant DLH bias (no disrespect meant!)...But Bokaj is not a casual fan IMHO, if that is what you are implying.

I don't want to put words into Bokaj's mouth, but I understand him to be saying what I am thinking and what most others are implying...it is not a disrespect to RJJ at all who is an ATG clearly...it was IMHo a refrence to mcCallums's superior boxing skills, and understanding of fundemantals. RJJ is physically gifted as very few others are, and he combined that with his highly gifted skillset....But much of his greatness was due to his physical giftedness and natural athleticism/reflexes and such...where mcCallum was nowhere near as physically gifted and had to master his craft at a higher level to even be in the stratosphere of RJJ. it is not a comparrison of who was better, that is RJJ pretty clearly....but rather who had the higher technical proficincy!

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by p.falk

Toney never gave Jirov much credit did he?

I always thought Jirov fought a stupid fight. but it gave us the FOTY

[smjm089]

Originally Posted by p.falk

Toney never gave Jirov much credit did he?

Jirovs white a bigot like Toney would never credit a white fighter.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

Strongest: Samuel Peter: He was just a big-ass African with brute African strength.

[MagnaNasakki]

Roy relied on speed, McCallum on not making a single mistake and never, ever being out of position.

Two different animals, but I know which one I'd rather put in a book to teach youngsters how to box. Mimicking Roy, unless you are a similar type of freak, is simply ugly, waiting to get knocked out fighting.

Unorthodox only serves a fighter if he's bringing something else(Brute strength, big hands, blazing fast-twitch muscle fibers) to the table. If you bring none of the above, unorthodox is, usually, just a PC word for bad boxer.

[Hookie]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

Yeah. What surprised me was that Mike said that Toney had improved a lot by the rubber fight. That was probably very true, but seeing how that fight was the only one Toney clearly won I was a bit surprised that Mike was so honest about it. The usual take from fighters is that the opponent was at his best when he got clearly beat, not the other way around.

Well, their 3rd fight was at CW when McCallum was 167 years old... it was McCallum's last pro fight. Prime vs. Prime? I'll take McCallum in a close fight.

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

Turbo you have been a nice addition to this forum, in spite of your blatant DLH bias (no disrespect meant!)...But Bokaj is not a casual fan IMHO, if that is what you are implying.

I don't want to put words into Bokaj's mouth, but I understand him to be saying what I am thinking and what most others are implying...it is not a disrespect to RJJ at all who is an ATG clearly...it was IMHo a refrence to mcCallums's superior boxing skills, and understanding of fundemantals. RJJ is physically gifted as very few others are, and he combined that with his highly gifted skillset....But much of his greatness was due to his physical giftedness and natural athleticism/reflexes and such...where mcCallum was nowhere near as physically gifted and had to master his craft at a higher level to even be in the stratosphere of RJJ. it is not a comparrison of who was better, that is RJJ pretty clearly....but rather who had the higher technical proficincy!

!!!

[TheGreatA]

Jones displayed his awesome in-fighting skill by putting up his gloves and laying against the ropes. His great feinting ability led to Montell Griffin literally laughing at his half-hearted attempts while the 5'7 terror of light heavyweights kept frustrating Jones who was bent on trying to outbox him (until realizing that he could literally just walk through Griffin with his physical advantages).

He was smart about utilizing his exceptional abilities which were without a doubt the result of rigorous training as well as talent, but if it's up to technical skill in all areas, McCallum has it over him. Reasons have already been explained for the most part.

Jones grew too fond of breaking all the rules only because he could, and as a result cannot truly be mentioned among the great technicians. He's still trying to fight as if he was 25 years old, which displays that the technical skills which were supposed to be there behind all his speed and flash, weren't necessarily there after all or he completely forgot about them.

[PhillyPhan69]

Originally Posted by Seamus

James Toney at his politically correct best....Whether you like him or not he is one of the ATG P4P trash talkers.

[SouthpawJab]

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

Jones displayed his awesome in-fighting skill by putting up his gloves and laying against the ropes.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RztFkl61-4I[/ame]
He tried countering Griffin off the ropes, but Griffin was very tricky. Roy was a very good inside fighter.

[TheGreatA]

Originally Posted by SouthpawJab

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


He tried countering Griffin off the ropes, but Griffin was very tricky. Roy was a very good inside fighter.

He didn't look too skilled on the inside to me. Sosa was about the crudest brawler you could get and Roy was hardly pulling a Toney-Barkley performance in close there, he was actually taking a few hits from Sosa's clubbing blows while unnecessarily positioned against the ropes and landed his best punches once he created space.

McCallum didn't have the option of doubling or tripling up on a left uppercut while still being able to move away from the opponent's punches. He relied on positioning, gaining proper leverage on the inside, subtle footwork that allowed him to work different angles seemingly effortlessly and accurate placement of punching, techniques that he was still able to pull off well into his 30's.

I'm not trying to denigrate Jones while hyping up McCallum, it's just how I see it. There are things that Jones was more exceptional at than McCallum, but inside fighting certainly wasn't one of them.

[SouthpawJab]

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

He didn't look too skilled on the inside to me. Sosa was about the crudest brawler you could get and Roy was hardly pulling a Toney-Barkley performance in close there, he was actually taking a few hits while unnecessarily positioned against the ropes and landed his best punches once he created space.

McCallum didn't have the option of doubling or tripling up on a left uppercut while still being able to move away from the opponent's punches. He relied on positioning, gaining proper leverage on the inside, subtle footwork that allowed him to work different angles seemingly effortlessly and accurate placement of punching, techniques that he was still able to pull off well into his 30's.

.Funny how you talk about Sosa being crude then bring up Barkley.Toney was getting hit in the Barkley fight. Roy was fighting off the ropes well. Spoiling Sosa's right hand and flurrying out. He picked his spots well and smothered Sosa's punches. Fought his fight and was clearly winning with little damage.


Roy was shading away from the left hook on the ropes while he held Sosa's right. His position was just fine. His feet were excellent. He was able to spin off the ropes while still in position to punch.

[BillyBomber]

Who else read that in Toney's voice? Lol

[TheGreatA]

Originally Posted by SouthpawJab

.Funny how you talk about Sosa being crude then bring up Barkley.Toney was getting hit in the Barkley fight. Roy was fighting off the ropes well. Spoiling Sosa's right hand and flurrying out. He picked his spots well and smothered Sosa's punches. Fought his fight and was clearly winning with little damage.


Roy was shading away from the left hook on the ropes while he held Sosa's right. His position was just fine. His feet were excellent. He was able to spin off the ropes while still in position to punch.

I brought up Barkley for exactly that reason, both were crude brawlers. Roy did well enough to manage on the inside and find ways out of those situations once he wanted to, but he did his damage at range. I just don't see this as much of a showing of his infighting ability, not that he ever truly needed it with his quick feet. He stayed on the ropes for a while, got out and then started landing at will on Sosa after creating some space.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

Turbo you have been a nice addition to this forum, in spite of your blatant DLH bias (no disrespect meant!)...But Bokaj is not a casual fan IMHO, if that is what you are implying.

I don't want to put words into Bokaj's mouth, but I understand him to be saying what I am thinking and what most others are implying...it is not a disrespect to RJJ at all who is an ATG clearly...it was IMHo a refrence to mcCallums's superior boxing skills, and understanding of fundemantals. RJJ is physically gifted as very few others are, and he combined that with his highly gifted skillset....But much of his greatness was due to his physical giftedness and natural athleticism/reflexes and such...where mcCallum was nowhere near as physically gifted and had to master his craft at a higher level to even be in the stratosphere of RJJ. it is not a comparrison of who was better, that is RJJ pretty clearly....but rather who had the higher technical proficincy!

Thanks. You put it well.