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Old 08-14-2012, 08:49 PM   #1
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Default What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

Would he have retired and have stayed retired? Would it have changed how people rate him? Would it matter at all?

50-0 (34) overall and 23-0 (15) in HW World Title Fights is hard to ignore. My guess is he would have went after Louis' record of 25 HW Title defenses though... then what?
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

Don King eventually would have fed him to Tyson. Mike would have secured the other belts and King would have put together a unification bout in 87 or perhaps even 88 for a ton of $$$$. It would have been such a mega payday, Larry would not have turned it down.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

Despite the losses, Holmes remains in my top 3.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

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Originally Posted by zadfrak View Post
Don King eventually would have fed him to Tyson. Mike would have secured the other belts and King would have put together a unification bout in 87 or perhaps even 88 for a ton of $$$$. It would have been such a mega payday, Larry would not have turned it down.

True. King would have wanted that 'pass the torch' bout.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:40 AM   #5
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

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Despite the losses, Holmes remains in my top 3.

And my top three. Holmes' last 'legacy' bout,imo,was in 1982 against Gerry Cooney.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

Holmes was good with his money and a big time real estate tycoon by that point in his career, he could have stopped at any time. I don't fault holmes for fighting Spinks in hopes of matching marcianos' 49-0 tho. He seemed the sure bet to beat Spinks at the time.
Unfortunately for Holmes, no one remembered to tell Michael this.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

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Holmes was good with his money and a big time real estate tycoon by that point in his career, he could have stopped at any time. I don't fault holmes for fighting Spinks in hopes of matching marcianos' 49-0 tho. He seemed the sure bet to beat Spinks at the time.
Unfortunately for Holmes, no one remembered to tell Michael this.
The last part of your quote was a good one and overall I definitely agree with you that Holmes picking Michael Spinks as the guy to reach 50-0 against basically and mainly from an economic standpoint was also a good reason to pick him over the guy that at the time was actually being groomed as Holmes' heir apparent/biggest threat to the Heavyweight throne, that being Holmes' unbeaten WBC counterpart Pinklon "Pinky" Thomas. Spinks was the undefeated/undisputed Lightheavyweight Champion at the time and as most may recall no lightheavy up to that point in the fall of '85 had ever beaten a heavyweight, championship or no championship. Between Spinks and Thomas I believe that Spinks was more marketable, had a little more charisma and of course was more well known to the public because of his '76 olympic gold medal accomplishment. And to answer the articles question had Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes gotten the win over Spinks in '85 and reached the 50-0 mark in all honesty the backlash of negativety and discredibility, truly unfair at best and especially from the white community following his masterful performance/victory over Gerry Cooney, toward Holmes would have been at its worst for him and a vast majority of the viewing public who hated Larry at best would still find a way not to recognize his feat had it been accomplished.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

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The last part of your quote was a good one and overall I definitely agree with you that Holmes picking Michael Spinks as the guy to reach 50-0 against basically and mainly from an economic standpoint was also a good reason to pick him over the guy that at the time was actually being groomed as Holmes' heir apparent/biggest threat to the Heavyweight throne, that being Holmes' unbeaten WBC counterpart Pinklon "Pinky" Thomas. Spinks was the undefeated/undisputed Lightheavyweight Champion at the time and as most may recall no lightheavy up to that point in the fall of '85 had ever beaten a heavyweight, championship or no championship. Between Spinks and Thomas I believe that Spinks was more marketable, had a little more charisma and of course was more well known to the public because of his '76 olympic gold medal accomplishment. And to answer the articles question had Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes gotten the win over Spinks in '85 and reached the 50-0 mark in all honesty the backlash of negativety and discredibility, truly unfair at best and especially from the white community following his masterful performance/victory over Gerry Cooney, toward Holmes would have been at its worst for him and a vast majority of the viewing public who hated Larry at best would still find a way not to recognize his feat had it been accomplished.
When he fought Spinks for the first time, his record was 48-0 and the Spinks fights was to tie Rocky's record, not to go 50-0. As we all know, he lost, then fought Spinks again in his next fight and lost again.

I remember how bitter he was about that loss and said a lot of things that I believe he wishes he never said at the time. I remember one sportscaster asking how he felt about not tying Rocky's record and he said "Marciano couldn't carry his jock strap!!"
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:30 AM   #9
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

He would have eventually lost his '0' and Marciano would still be 'the man' of the heavyweight division...for some people anyway...
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

my question is, whos record was better larrys 48-0 or rockys 49-0 ability of foe wise.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

I think that it would have done more to take the glitter of Marciano' acomplishment, than enhance Holmses standing.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

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I think that it would have done more to take the glitter of Marciano' acomplishment, than enhance Holmses standing.
I think this is a very shrewd observation.

Another thing, Larry's "jockstrap" was not exactly his finest hour...
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

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Originally Posted by gumbo2176 View Post
When he fought Spinks for the first time, his record was 48-0 and the Spinks fights was to tie Rocky's record, not to go 50-0. As we all know, he lost, then fought Spinks again in his next fight and lost again.

I remember how bitter he was about that loss and said a lot of things that I believe he wishes he never said at the time. I remember one sportscaster asking how he felt about not tying Rocky's record and he said "Marciano couldn't carry his jock strap!!"
Yes, he would have had to win both fights vs. Spinks to reach 50-0.

IMO, the first fight was close and a Holmes victory would not have been seen as a robbery by too many people... but enough to garner a rematch.

I had Holmes winning the rematch 144-141.

Holmes fought well in the rematch. His output was good, his conditioning was good, he fought smart, and stuck to his fight plan. Had he got the win to go along with his good performance, it may have given new life to his career. Maybe he would have been a major force in '86 and '87.

Face it, he was rusty vs. Tyson in '88. Hell, he was better when he fought Holyfield in '92.

How would Holmes have done vs. Witherspoon II or Smith II in '86 or '87? How about Thomas, Tucker, and yes Tyson... had he gotten those 2 wins over M. Spinks?
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

I have Holmes #2 behind Ali and it's a close #2.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: What is Holmes would have got to 50-0?

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Yes, he would have had to win both fights vs. Spinks to reach 50-0.

IMO, the first fight was close and a Holmes victory would not have been seen as a robbery by too many people... but enough to garner a rematch.

I had Holmes winning the rematch 144-141.

Holmes fought well in the rematch. His output was good, his conditioning was good, he fought smart, and stuck to his fight plan. Had he got the win to go along with his good performance, it may have given new life to his career. Maybe he would have been a major force in '86 and '87.

Face it, he was rusty vs. Tyson in '88. Hell, he was better when he fought Holyfield in '92.

How would Holmes have done vs. Witherspoon II or Smith II in '86 or '87? How about Thomas, Tucker, and yes Tyson... had he gotten those 2 wins over M. Spinks?

Holmes vs Witherspoon II 86-87

witherspoon would win if it was on even terms without don king.

Holmes vs Smith II 86-87

holmes would win on points, i dont think he would ko smith at this point, smith had learnt how to spoil very effectivly, and even look good doing it, i loved his fight with tyson.

Holmes vs Thomas 86-87

depends who was sharper, if thomas was back on the drugs and not training at his best holmes would win, but if he was off the drugs and training well, he would win holmes athletic ability had gone by 83/84 imo.

Holmes vs Tucker 86-87

Interesting fight, i think holmes was all wrong for tucker, tucker was a sucker for a good jab, it took his jab away and he was a sitting target, i think it would be a close boring dull UD

Holmes vs Tyson 86-87

tyson would have always beat holmes, his power jab is not a good weapon against tyson, if you use a power jab you have to take a step towards your opponent, and if you miss your one step closer to them, and you will be open on one side, and maybe off balance, i think holmes whole style is wrong for tyson.

I think the most interesting fights for holmes, for me anyway is tubbs and bruno.
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