Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

[Matty lll]

To be fair I just watched that new Bruce Lee documentary and I really like some of the philosophies behind JKD, even if I still think a lot of the techniques are nonsense. I might pick up that book if it's cheap enough.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Im sorry Matty but that guy in the vid is full of shit. here's some CCTV footage of a Cop trained in JKD taking down two thugs with ease

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Awesome! I especially like the high level Eskrima at the end.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

Yeah sure, " realistic street fighting" practised in plush gyms, by guys in pyjamas, in zero contact scenarios, with a S&C fusion of men's health magazine and bizarre Hong Kong folklore!

Oh yeah, boran. Go about 55 seconds in so you can see JKD vs Muay Thai:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4O9RMoBucc&feature=relmfu[/ame]

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by Matty lll

To be fair I just watched that new Bruce Lee documentary and I really like some of the philosophies behind JKD, even if I still think a lot of the techniques are nonsense. I might pick up that book if it's cheap enough.

You definitely should. I love Bruce's books. I have Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee's Fighting Method Volumes 1-4, and Jeet Kune Do: Bruce Lee's Commentary on the Martial Way. I recommend all of them. Bruce's philosophy is spot on when it comes to being prepared for self defense.

[rusty nails]

Originally Posted by sugarngold

No. There's a difference between training for the street and for games. Sure MMA and muay thai guys are tough but kick em in the balls and what happens?

Training out the window. Simple. Effective. Economic. Real. Not a sport.

says who? your forgetting about what actual fighters condition themselves to deal with. fighting is all about learning to push through pain and moments of doubt.
at best id say they go down and end up in the guard position albeit in a great deal of pain. thats if you can even land the groin kick. ever tried to kick someone in the groin while they are picking you up and dumping your head into the pavement?
besides which whos to say the muay thai or mma guy cant use a groin kick?

you have no idea about fighting whatsoever.. none
just a bunch of half baked eastern philosophy and too many martial arts movies

[Rob_Floyd]

Originally Posted by rusty nails

besides which whos to say the muay thai or mma guy cant use a groin kick?

This is something that it seems a lot of people forget. Just because you are trained in a certain discipline, doesn't mean that you unable to get dirty on the street. It also doesn't mean that you are unaware that others are liable to try dirty tactics on you. It doesn't get much more dangerous than a trained fighter that is willing to fight dirty.

[sugarngold]

Here's another lesson people forget that you fight the way you train. So go ahead and train for the ring and rules. When I trained Brazilian Jiujitsu it was always with a gi because with the exception of the beach everywhere you go people are wearing clothing. I'm not getting in the ring or octagon any time soon so why limit myself to it?

In the words of RJ "Yah'll musta forgot."

[Primate]

Originally Posted by rusty nails

...thats if you can even land the groin kick. ever tried to kick someone in the groin while they are picking you up and dumping your head into the pavement?
besides which whos to say the muay thai or mma guy cant use a groin kick?

....
just a bunch of half baked eastern philosophy and too many martial arts movies

Originally Posted by Rob_Floyd

This is something that it seems a lot of people forget. Just because you are trained in a certain discipline, doesn't mean that you unable to get dirty on the street. It also doesn't mean that you are unaware that others are liable to try dirty tactics on you. It doesn't get much more dangerous than a trained fighter that is willing to fight dirty.

So much truth here.

I have trained with guys from all types of disciplines. A few in particular who come to mind are guys from traditional backgrounds who think that guy who train in combat sports are too inhibited to be effective. One guy in particular was a huge fan of Bruce Lee, had trained in a range of martial arts and spent a great deal of time in Wing Chun and JKD. I used to demolish him when we were boxing. Utterly demolish. He used to accept it, but always with a caveat, "it'd be different if we were kicking, because I'd low kick and do this or that..." etc. etc.

One day we put on some shin guards and I tore up his legs as well, most of the guys I train with tend to forget that I started out in kick boxing/muay thai because of how much time I've spent boxing. I think he managed to land one kick the whole time, and he ate a counter right hand in the process.

So all of a sudden it would be different if we were fighting properly because he could take me down, etc. So one day we're wearing mma gloves and going full contact. He ended up taking me down, and I locked in a guillotine. Oh, but it would be different on the street, because he could fight dirty.

Think about it. He could fight dirty by kicking me in the nuts, but he barely ever landed a kick. He could gouge my eyes or head butt me, but he never had his hands or his head in a position to do so. I certainly did, and I've become quite a fan of head butts in the clinch when properly used.

Now this is just one example from one guy, but I've got countless others. I've trained with guys from all kinds of backgrounds, some have destroyed me, some have been completely helpless from the moment we first made contact, others have been fairly competitive. This is across a range of sparring/fighting styles too, from straight up boxing to kickboxing, mma, straight grappling/wrestling or just throw a mouthguard in and go for it (think Geoff Thompsons animal day)

Overwhelmingly, the guys that destroyed me were from combat sports backgrounds (boxing, judo, muaythai, bjj), and just as overwhelmingly, the guys who had trained before that put up the least of a fight were from TMA backgrounds, including wing chun and JKD.

[PIRA]

Originally Posted by Primate

So much truth here.

I have trained with guys from all types of disciplines. A few in particular who come to mind are guys from traditional backgrounds who think that guy who train in combat sports are too inhibited to be effective. One guy in particular was a huge fan of Bruce Lee, had trained in a range of martial arts and spent a great deal of time in Wing Chun and JKD. I used to demolish him when we were boxing. Utterly demolish. He used to accept it, but always with a caveat, "it'd be different if we were kicking, because I'd low kick and do this or that..." etc. etc.

One day we put on some shin guards and I tore up his legs as well, most of the guys I train with tend to forget that I started out in kick boxing/muay thai because of how much time I've spent boxing. I think he managed to land one kick the whole time, and he ate a counter right hand in the process.

So all of a sudden it would be different if we were fighting properly because he could take me down, etc. So one day we're wearing mma gloves and going full contact. He ended up taking me down, and I locked in a guillotine. Oh, but it would be different on the street, because he could fight dirty.

Think about it. He could fight dirty by kicking me in the nuts, but he barely ever landed a kick. He could gouge my eyes or head butt me, but he never had his hands or his head in a position to do so. I certainly did, and I've become quite a fan of head butts in the clinch when properly used.

Now this is just one example from one guy, but I've got countless others. I've trained with guys from all kinds of backgrounds, some have destroyed me, some have been completely helpless from the moment we first made contact, others have been fairly competitive. This is across a range of sparring/fighting styles too, from straight up boxing to kickboxing, mma, straight grappling/wrestling or just throw a mouthguard in and go for it (think Geoff Thompsons animal day)

Overwhelmingly, the guys that destroyed me were from combat sports backgrounds (boxing, judo, muaythai, bjj), and just as overwhelmingly, the guys who had trained before that put up the least of a fight were from TMA backgrounds, including wing chun and JKD.

There is always an out with these traditional guys - as if sports practioners don't practice dirty techniques!

[rusty nails]

Originally Posted by Primate

Overwhelmingly, the guys that destroyed me were from combat sports backgrounds (boxing, judo, muaythai, bjj), and just as overwhelmingly, the guys who had trained before that put up the least of a fight were from TMA backgrounds, including wing chun and JKD.

Its not a coincidence that these are the styles that have risen to the top in the martial arts world. like its some kind of fluke or something.
meanwhile theres footage all over the web of JKD guys getting owned and every time a new one pops up you hear the same old shit.... "that guy wasnt practising the 'REAL' art"....... "that would have been different on the street with no rules".....or my favourite excuse, "If that was bruce lee in there....."

i mean theres having faith in your art and then theres just your straight up ignoring evidence.

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by sugarngold

No. There's a difference between training for the street and for games. Sure MMA and muay thai guys are tough but kick em in the balls and what happens?

Training out the window. Simple. Effective. Economic. Real. Not a sport.

You really don't know much about MT do you.

Originally Posted by sugarngold

Boran you are a very knowledgeable poster but in this thread you are showing your complete ignorance of the topic at hand. JKD encouraged full contact sparring scenarios. Don't confuse what you see as "JKD practitioners" for the art as espoused by Bruce Lee which was the truth. These guys like Carruthers are espousing their interpretation of the art - but unlike Muay thai which is a collection of techniques - JKD is a method of expression and an understanding of concepts.

Read The Tao of Jeet Kune Do and THe Bruce Lee Story and then when you're informed about Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do feel free to respond.

In terms of the JKD full contact scenarios, well I've seen a few of those and housewives in Tae bo classes flinch less when a punch comes thier way.

And about reading The Tao of Jeet Kune Do, well I had a copy in the late 80s or early 90s and I did read it or parts of it and one part in particulary sticks in my mind, yep you guessed it the one about how impressed he was with the power of the MT kick and how he likend them techincally to boxing punches in the way the hip was fully commited.

"Do feel free to respond."

Am I allowed to respond now? (I fuckin hate arrogance!)

And for the record I also had a signed copy of Chris Kent's Jeet Kune Do Kickboxing and what a load of shit that was. The only reason I bought it was cos it had the word kickboxing in the title, there wern't many books on the subject back then and I can't describe the dissapointment I felt when I actually read it.

I'm a fan of Bruce for advocating everyone should find a stlye that works for him or her and besides how can anyone dislike Bruce and anyone that comes up with the "boards don't hit back" quote is a man I'll listen to, disciples however........

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by Primate

So much truth here.

I have trained with guys from all types of disciplines. A few in particular who come to mind are guys from traditional backgrounds who think that guy who train in combat sports are too inhibited to be effective. One guy in particular was a huge fan of Bruce Lee, had trained in a range of martial arts and spent a great deal of time in Wing Chun and JKD. I used to demolish him when we were boxing. Utterly demolish. He used to accept it, but always with a caveat, "it'd be different if we were kicking, because I'd low kick and do this or that..." etc. etc.

One day we put on some shin guards and I tore up his legs as well, most of the guys I train with tend to forget that I started out in kick boxing/muay thai because of how much time I've spent boxing. I think he managed to land one kick the whole time, and he ate a counter right hand in the process.

So all of a sudden it would be different if we were fighting properly because he could take me down, etc. So one day we're wearing mma gloves and going full contact. He ended up taking me down, and I locked in a guillotine. Oh, but it would be different on the street, because he could fight dirty.

Think about it. He could fight dirty by kicking me in the nuts, but he barely ever landed a kick. He could gouge my eyes or head butt me, but he never had his hands or his head in a position to do so. I certainly did, and I've become quite a fan of head butts in the clinch when properly used.

Now this is just one example from one guy, but I've got countless others. I've trained with guys from all kinds of backgrounds, some have destroyed me, some have been completely helpless from the moment we first made contact, others have been fairly competitive. This is across a range of sparring/fighting styles too, from straight up boxing to kickboxing, mma, straight grappling/wrestling or just throw a mouthguard in and go for it (think Geoff Thompsons animal day)

Overwhelmingly, the guys that destroyed me were from combat sports backgrounds (boxing, judo, muaythai, bjj), and just as overwhelmingly, the guys who had trained before that put up the least of a fight were from TMA backgrounds, including wing chun and JKD.

Well said mate.

Originally Posted by PIRA

There is always an out with these traditional guys - as if sports practioners don't practice dirty techniques!

Don't you know it PIRA!

The other main point is in the main full contact diciplines MT, Boxing, MMA we train not just to dish it out but to take it to!

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by rusty nails

says who? your forgetting about what actual fighters condition themselves to deal with. fighting is all about learning to push through pain and moments of doubt.
at best id say they go down and end up in the guard position albeit in a great deal of pain. thats if you can even land the groin kick. ever tried to kick someone in the groin while they are picking you up and dumping your head into the pavement?
besides which whos to say the muay thai or mma guy cant use a groin kick?

you have no idea about fighting whatsoever.. none
just a bunch of half baked eastern philosophy and too many martial arts movies

You are overreacting. I know him personally, and he knows plenty about fighting. He has always approached training with practical street application first, sport second. He is all about fingers to the eyes, bending fingers, biting, cupped hand strikes to the ears, knuckles to the ribs while grappling, striking the throat, etc...

He doesn't do all of those things while rolling(submission grappling) in a friendly environment, but he is always considering them as the primary possibilities. This is not what people that train for sporting competitions do, and that type of training does not make a no rules fighting the initial reaction. That is his point entirely, and it is sound.

sugarngold is just overreacting in this thread because he perceives some of the responses to be an attack on JKD, and he is always prepared to defend the philosophy to the death. He doesn't realize it is more poking fun at the TS, than it is poking fun at a philosophy.

[rusty nails]

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

You are overreacting. I know him personally, and he knows plenty about fighting. He has always approached training with practical street application first, sport second. He is all about fingers to the eyes, bending fingers, biting, cupped hand strikes to the ears, knuckles to the ribs while grappling, striking the throat, etc...

He doesn't do all of those things while rolling(submission grappling) in a friendly environment, but he is always considering them as the primary possibilities. This is not what people that train for sporting competitions do, and that type of training does not make a no rules fighting the initial reaction. That is his point entirely, and it is sound.

sugarngold is just overreacting in this thread because he perceives some of the responses to be an attack on JKD, and he is always prepared to defend the philosophy to the death. He doesn't realize it is more poking fun at the TS, than it is poking fun at a philosophy.

but these things arent patented to JKD. Nor are these things likely to end a fight. its just being a filthy animal.
lets look at it from a jiu jitsu perspective. lets say you bite a guy that knows what hes doing. do you honestly think that guy is going to be thinking "oh that guy bit me but hey i must keep it clean because thats what ive trained to do"
of course not.
hes ganna turn into a spiteful prick himself. except this time instead of just getting the mount and holding you down he might just isolate an arm and start ramming fingers into eyes or instead of taking the back and sinking in a choke he might just start smashing your face into the ground.

[Matt Ldn]

Originally Posted by Rob_Floyd

This is something that it seems a lot of people forget. Just because you are trained in a certain discipline, doesn't mean that you unable to get dirty on the street. It also doesn't mean that you are unaware that others are liable to try dirty tactics on you. It doesn't get much more dangerous than a trained fighter that is willing to fight dirty.

Exactly, If I got in a fight I'd aim for throat and groin and if we got close and were grappling I'd use headbutts and I'd bite. I imagine a MT guy who can use his legs as well as he can use his hands will be able to land a brutal bollock kick.

Originally Posted by Primate

So much truth here.

I have trained with guys from all types of disciplines. A few in particular who come to mind are guys from traditional backgrounds who think that guy who train in combat sports are too inhibited to be effective. One guy in particular was a huge fan of Bruce Lee, had trained in a range of martial arts and spent a great deal of time in Wing Chun and JKD. I used to demolish him when we were boxing. Utterly demolish. He used to accept it, but always with a caveat, "it'd be different if we were kicking, because I'd low kick and do this or that..." etc. etc.

One day we put on some shin guards and I tore up his legs as well, most of the guys I train with tend to forget that I started out in kick boxing/muay thai because of how much time I've spent boxing. I think he managed to land one kick the whole time, and he ate a counter right hand in the process.

So all of a sudden it would be different if we were fighting properly because he could take me down, etc. So one day we're wearing mma gloves and going full contact. He ended up taking me down, and I locked in a guillotine. Oh, but it would be different on the street, because he could fight dirty.

Think about it. He could fight dirty by kicking me in the nuts, but he barely ever landed a kick. He could gouge my eyes or head butt me, but he never had his hands or his head in a position to do so. I certainly did, and I've become quite a fan of head butts in the clinch when properly used.

Now this is just one example from one guy, but I've got countless others. I've trained with guys from all kinds of backgrounds, some have destroyed me, some have been completely helpless from the moment we first made contact, others have been fairly competitive. This is across a range of sparring/fighting styles too, from straight up boxing to kickboxing, mma, straight grappling/wrestling or just throw a mouthguard in and go for it (think Geoff Thompsons animal day)

Overwhelmingly, the guys that destroyed me were from combat sports backgrounds (boxing, judo, muaythai, bjj), and just as overwhelmingly, the guys who had trained before that put up the least of a fight were from TMA backgrounds, including wing chun and JKD.

Great post. I've always said boxing hasn't made me a better fighter because I know how to punch now its because I know how to take a punch now. In a street fight usually the first solid punch that lands ends a fight because guys don't know how to take a punch they flinch lean back get hit off balance end up on the floor getting the shit kicked out of them. I reckon one of the best weapons in a street fight would be a MT leg kick. Quick, powerful, thrown at distance,most people don't know how to defend and your less likely to get arrested.

People also forget a lot is to do with the individual. You can't just say a boxer would beat a JKD guy because there is such a spectrum of fighters from both disciplines, in experience, skills, style etc.