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Old 08-15-2012, 10:48 PM   #46
rekcutnevets
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

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Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
but these things arent patented to JKD.
Patented? No, they're not. However, they are stressed. What is the primary attack in JKD? A sidekick to the opponent's lead leg. Why? Because it is the closest target. What's the 2nd? Finger jab to the eye.

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Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
Nor are these things likely to end a fight.
By themselves, maybe not. Throw in the fact that sugarngold is an experienced bjj practitioner, and the brief agony may be the difference in him securing a fight ending submission.

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its just being a filthy animal.
lets look at it from a jiu jitsu perspective. lets say you bite a guy that knows what hes doing. do you honestly think that guy is going to be thinking "oh that guy bit me but hey i must keep it clean because thats what ive trained to do"
of course not.
hes ganna turn into a spiteful prick himself. except this time instead of just getting the mount and holding you down he might just isolate an arm and start ramming fingers into eyes or instead of taking the back and sinking in a choke he might just start smashing your face into the ground.
Filthy animal? Spiteful prick? You are acting like this is a sporting contest. sugarngold is all about self defense. He doesn't go out and pick fights with people. That would be acting like a "filthy animal." These rough tactics would be used against a violent attacker, not some guy looking to arm wrestle.

In regards to escalating in these tactics after being bitten, poked in the eye, and/or whatever; that doesn't mean the other person would get to retaliate. There is no ref to break up a street fight. A "dirty move" could be all the difference in the world when it comes to fighting.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:16 PM   #47
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

Quote:

By themselves, maybe not. Throw in the fact that sugarngold is an experienced bjj practitioner, and the brief agony may be the difference in him securing a fight ending submission.
well that would mean his jiu jitsu won him the fight. take away his jiu jitsu knowledge and hes just a guy looking to bite someone or bend some fingers

Quote:
Filthy animal? Spiteful prick? You are acting like this is a sporting contest. sugarngold is all about self defense. He doesn't go out and pick fights with people. That would be acting like a "filthy animal." These rough tactics would be used against a violent attacker, not some guy looking to arm wrestle.
no im acting like a guy that lives in the real world, where there is consequences and repercussions for you actions.
try saying to a judge "oh its cool judge, i only ripped that guys eyes out because he threw a punch at me"

Quote:
In regards to escalating in these tactics after being bitten, poked in the eye, and/or whatever; that doesn't mean the other person would get to retaliate. There is no ref to break up a street fight. A "dirty move" could be all the difference in the world when it comes to fighting
technically your right it COULD be... As in i COULD win lotto..
but its not very likely against someone with legit combat experience
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:24 PM   #48
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
Patented? No, they're not. However, they are stressed. What is the primary attack in JKD? A sidekick to the opponent's lead leg. Why? Because it is the closest target. What's the 2nd? Finger jab to the eye.

By themselves, maybe not. Throw in the fact that sugarngold is an experienced bjj practitioner, and the brief agony may be the difference in him securing a fight ending submission.


Filthy animal? Spiteful prick? You are acting like this is a sporting contest. sugarngold is all about self defense. He doesn't go out and pick fights with people. That would be acting like a "filthy animal." These rough tactics would be used against a violent attacker, not some guy looking to arm wrestle.

In regards to escalating in these tactics after being bitten, poked in the eye, and/or whatever; that doesn't mean the other person would get to retaliate. There is no ref to break up a street fight. A "dirty move" could be all the difference in the world when it comes to fighting.
theres a reason that the early 'vale tudo' (no rules) events didnt turn into a mess of eye gouging and groin shots. and that was both fighters knew that it was unlikely to be the catalyst for a win. they also realised that if they did take it there then they had to expect it in return which is a built in deterrent. occasionally it did go this way but usually as a last resort and rarely with any cumulative success
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:05 AM   #49
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

JKD is about trying a bunch of stuff, trying to use it in live situations against a resisting opponent, seeing what (perhaps few) techniques work for you and then perfecting them. That ****ing dumb vid is just some stupid flashy choreography. There's NOTHING wrong with JKD and maybe nothing wrong with that guy's gym, but that vid is pure crap. I'm embarrassed that it has the label JKD on it.

As for the "martial art vs sport" thing, do you guys not realize how totally ****ed out that discussion is? Seriously, this is the 1 trillionth time. If you practice praying monkey bird kung fu as alivly as thai boxers and judo guys train, you can make the argument that given equal athletic ability you'll be just as well off if not better (if you must play the "dirty tricks" or "pressure points" card) but if you don't (and be honest, most don't) then you probably won't get the chance to do dirty/spinning anything before you get clocked by a guy who trains realistically. THE END.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:33 AM   #50
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

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Originally Posted by Primate View Post
So much truth here.

I have trained with guys from all types of disciplines. A few in particular who come to mind are guys from traditional backgrounds who think that guy who train in combat sports are too inhibited to be effective. One guy in particular was a huge fan of Bruce Lee, had trained in a range of martial arts and spent a great deal of time in Wing Chun and JKD. I used to demolish him when we were boxing. Utterly demolish. He used to accept it, but always with a caveat, "it'd be different if we were kicking, because I'd low kick and do this or that..." etc. etc.

One day we put on some shin guards and I tore up his legs as well, most of the guys I train with tend to forget that I started out in kick boxing/muay thai because of how much time I've spent boxing. I think he managed to land one kick the whole time, and he ate a counter right hand in the process.

So all of a sudden it would be different if we were fighting properly because he could take me down, etc. So one day we're wearing mma gloves and going full contact. He ended up taking me down, and I locked in a guillotine. Oh, but it would be different on the street, because he could fight dirty.

Think about it. He could fight dirty by kicking me in the nuts, but he barely ever landed a kick. He could gouge my eyes or head butt me, but he never had his hands or his head in a position to do so. I certainly did, and I've become quite a fan of head butts in the clinch when properly used.

Now this is just one example from one guy, but I've got countless others. I've trained with guys from all kinds of backgrounds, some have destroyed me, some have been completely helpless from the moment we first made contact, others have been fairly competitive. This is across a range of sparring/fighting styles too, from straight up boxing to kickboxing, mma, straight grappling/wrestling or just throw a mouthguard in and go for it (think Geoff Thompsons animal day)

Overwhelmingly, the guys that destroyed me were from combat sports backgrounds (boxing, judo, muaythai, bjj), and just as overwhelmingly, the guys who had trained before that put up the least of a fight were from TMA backgrounds, including wing chun and JKD.


Exactly, I've only boxed for about a year and a half now but there is one guy I know who does some sort of TMA at a local leisure centre, he's been doing WingChun or whatever it was since he was pretty young and he came to boxing one time to try it. We were only doing some light sparring because he was new and I was going pretty easy on him but even at that I could land shots pretty much at will, he didn't have any sense of defense and was wide open to be hit. If it was a real fight or hard spar I have no doubt I would have handled him with ease. He never came back after that

Now obviously there might be some guys from JKD, Wing Chun etc. that are good but from my one experience and judging by what Primate says that's not really the case.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:45 AM   #51
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

Like I said, I like some of the ideas that Bruce has after watching that documentary but the techniques, like most other similar martial arts are nonsense. I mean you don't really need special training to kick someone in the nuts and gouge their eyes do you? Thats why krav maga/MCMAP seems effective, it cuts out the bullshit and is pretty much some judo/BJJ throws and chokes combined with eye gouges and the like.

Proper eye gouges I mean, that eye jab in JKD is ****ing stupid. I mean just look at this...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJuD4OvAZLU[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nf3rUVypVg&feature=related[/ame]

and although it's not the eye jab crap, if you want a good laugh...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpjfxbcwJNE[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grL9uuvfF_o[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHXYZtS7mk[/ame]

That third one is pure gold
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:36 AM   #52
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

Aye...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTxHkSVVVTU[/ame]
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:48 AM   #53
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
theres a reason that the early 'vale tudo' (no rules) events didnt turn into a mess of eye gouging and groin shots. and that was both fighters knew that it was unlikely to be the catalyst for a win. they also realised that if they did take it there then they had to expect it in return which is a built in deterrent. occasionally it did go this way but usually as a last resort and rarely with any cumulative success
No, they realized that eye gouging and groin shots would not appeal to those that care about their eyes and their testicles. Vale Tudo was a sporting contest that was ultimately trying to prove the best methods of fighting while keeping things civil. You may have a lot of spectators, but how many participants do you think you would have if fighters were leaving the ring blind, needing surgery on their balls, and missing a finger where someone bit it off? It was less mutually assured destruction, more let's not get too ****ing crazy here. We want this to be a recurring thing.

Last edited by rekcutnevets; 08-16-2012 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:56 AM   #54
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty lll View Post
Like I said, I like some of the ideas that Bruce has after watching that documentary but the techniques, like most other similar martial arts are nonsense. I mean you don't really need special training to kick someone in the nuts and gouge their eyes do you? Thats why krav maga/MCMAP seems effective, it cuts out the bullshit and is pretty much some judo/BJJ throws and chokes combined with eye gouges and the like.

Proper eye gouges I mean, that eye jab in JKD is ****ing stupid. I mean just look at this...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

and although it's not the eye jab crap, if you want a good laugh...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

That third one is pure gold
Forget all that shit. I just like the concept of poking someone in the eye. Without even watching those vids, I'm assuming they are showing variations of the finger jab. I've always thought that was a way to jam your finger on your opponent's face when you miss. You don't have to load up when you poke someone in the eye.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:47 PM   #55
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

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well that would mean his jiu jitsu won him the fight. take away his jiu jitsu knowledge and hes just a guy looking to bite someone or bend some fingers
So, what's your point? I never said he was going around submitting people by bending their fingers.


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Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
no im acting like a guy that lives in the real world, where there is consequences and repercussions for you actions.
try saying to a judge "oh its cool judge, i only ripped that guys eyes out because he threw a punch at me"
I was discussing a similar subject with an attorney, and it all has to do with timing. If someone attacks you, and you happen to have a baseball bat accessible during this attack, you can hit and kill your attacker and get off on self defense. If someone kicks your ass and walks away, and you pick up a bat and follow and kill your attacker; you will be charged with murder.

So, if someone punches you and walks away; you would get in trouble if you find them and poke them in the eye. If you poke someone that attacked you in the eye, you should be just fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
technically your right it COULD be... As in i COULD win lotto..
but its not very likely against someone with legit combat experience
If it isn't likely, then why do so many fighters cower in the cage after an eye gouge or low blow. Some are experienced and looking to take advantage of a point deduction, but some are completely thrown off by what is a foul in a fight with rules.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #56
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

So what's the best way to poke someones eye out. Do you use the index fingers, because Id imagine using the middle finger you'd get that extra bit of reach knowledge. Or do you use the thumb because the ....


Ahhh **** it I'll kick um in the nuts
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:11 PM   #57
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

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So what's the best way to poke someones eye out. Do you use the index fingers, because Id imagine using the middle finger you'd get that extra bit of reach knowledge. Or do you use the thumb because the ....


Ahhh **** it I'll kick um in the nuts
I don't think they are all that effective as initial attacks. Most knowledgeable fighters would deflect them like they would a jab, or a kick to the stomach. Most males have a 6th sense when it comes to their nuts, as they are normally terrorized by their peers in this regard as early teens. I think pokes to the eye are done well when people are in clinching range, and the hands are open and near the face.

My brother, who did wrestle but was not a martial artist, used his thumb a lot in street fights. Not like a strike. He would grab someone's face while inserting his thumb into that person's eye socket. One time, he tackled two guys and held one down with his index finger in one guy's eye while punching the other guy in the face. However, these were not skilled opponents; and all 3 of them were drunk.

The inside leg kick seems to be great for finding someone's groin.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:39 PM   #58
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Well nobody was terrorizing my nuts when I was a young lad...so basically what you are saying is that with JDK developed a 6th sense by taking repeated groin shots on a regular basis, thus enabling them to defend such an attack at a random encounter. That's genius, why didnt I think of that

I know what you mean about the thumb strike when drunk, Ive witnessed it myself. Once my mate was really hammered and he needed to sneeze. And in the split second it took to realise he needed to go, he thought it would be awfully funny if he sneezed greenies on someone else

So in the act of ****ing head head back to let out some quality boogers over the person sat next to him, the person in question put his hand out as he didnt want to be a human kleenex. But of course as the sneezer began to **** his head forward, he caught the thumb of the person who he intended to sneeze on. It was like the opening stanza of O'Hara v Lee, the hand went forward with the reactions of a cat and the precision of inspector Clouseau doing a Three Stooges impression

I laughed all the way to the hospital

I really yearning for Mike W's input...on this topic. He's ESB's foremost eye gouging expert.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:50 PM   #59
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Read and learn Gentlemen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike W View Post
<font color="Red"><b>I used to play Mortal Kombat videos games when I was in elementary school and I remember Reptile had that acid spit.<br />
<br />
I also used to watch the WWF and I remember some Asian wrestlers used to spit out green or red stuff into their opponents' eyes and they would go blind (at least for a while). One of those wrestlers was named Kwang. I also remember Mr Fuji, who had managed a number of wrestlers, would cheat during matches and would throw salt or something else into the opponents' eyes.<br />
<br />
And I did watch the Deadliest Warrior TV show and remember that African warrior who fought that English guy with a sword. The African had something pepper that he put into his mouth and spit it out into the guys' eyes. They mentioned that it was poison.<br />
<br />
What do you guys think about that?? If I was in a feud, and I spit venom into my opponents' eyes, would that be fair??<br />
<br />
And what is something I could use to do that, besides liquid??I already thought about Scope. I called that Acid Spit because it reminded me of Reptile from Mortal Kombat. It will only burn his eyes, but it's good enough.</b></font>
<br />
<br />
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike W View Post
<font color="Red"><b>I made a few threads about this about who would win a team fight between me and my team of Kyokushin fighters from Japan against a group of US Marines. And I mentioned that if I had a bucket full of Scope or powdered pepper, I would win.<br />
<br />
If I threw stuff that can burn someone's eyes, I will certianly win against almost anyone in a street fight.<br />
<br />
I think that one of those old UFC Kung Fu/Karate guys of the old UFC such as Harold Howard or Keith Hackney could beat any of the top UFC Heavyweights of today or any world champion K1 fighter or heavyweight boxer.<br />
<br />
Let's say that Harold Howard was going to fight Vitali Klitschko in a street fight, and then Howard threw a handful of pepper into Klitschko's eyes, how is Klitschko going to win the fight now??</b></font>
<br />
<br />
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:42 PM   #60
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Default Re: Here goes some original Jeet Kune Do for anybody

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Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
Well nobody was terrorizing my nuts when I was a young lad...so basically what you are saying is that with JDK developed a 6th sense by taking repeated groin shots on a regular basis, thus enabling them to defend such an attack at a random encounter. That's genius, why didnt I think of that
No, I did not say JKD practitioners have a 6th sense. Men do in general. That's why women are taught not to expect it to be easy to just hit a male attacker in the nuts. Also, I'm not all that big a fan of JKD techniques as a whole. I'm more a fan of the philosophy. Who was the first person to start trolling in this thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
I really yearning for Mike W's input...on this topic. He's ESB's foremost eye gouging expert.
Getting gouged by your uncle's penis doesn't count.
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