Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-17-2012, 01:48 AM   #46
Danmann
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,108
vCash: 500
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Ali was not considered greatest by boxing experts when he fought, he was called greatest by generation of new writers who loved his attitude and politics. Check out old boxing magazines from 1960's and 1970's to see how experts rated him.

He did not deserve second fight decison agianst Frazier, he held 132 times in recount done by Eddie Futch. I know Futch was in fraziers corner, but he still had the fight film to point out to reporters and he counted it out for them. If Frazier gets that decision, promoters lose millions. People talk now of Arum and others being crooked, look at how Ali was given a total gift in boht Norton rematches.
Danmann is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-17-2012, 02:39 AM   #47
devon
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,108
vCash: 75
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
Ali was not considered greatest by boxing experts when he fought, he was called greatest by generation of new writers who loved his attitude and politics. Check out old boxing magazines from 1960's and 1970's to see how experts rated him.

He did not deserve second fight decison agianst Frazier, he held 132 times in recount done by Eddie Futch. I know Futch was in fraziers corner, but he still had the fight film to point out to reporters and he counted it out for them. If Frazier gets that decision, promoters lose millions. People talk now of Arum and others being crooked, look at how Ali was given a total gift in boht Norton rematches.
If Promoters would lose millions if Ali lost the second fight then why did they give Frazier the first fight.
devon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 03:05 AM   #48
Danmann
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,108
vCash: 500
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by devon View Post
If Promoters would lose millions if Ali lost the second fight then why did they give Frazier the first fight.
To make the millions it bought in and cause it had to be made to unite title, people would not stand for split title then. If Ali loses two in row, he is gone, or at least on shelf, and Frazier would not bring in same amount of money. Frazier winning once was ok, but twice, they would not let it happen. Same with Norton. Norton gets decision he deserves in second fight, Ali is out of picture for a while. A Norton defense does not make some money as Ali does. Norton got robbed as bad as anyone ever got robbed. They ****ed him over twice to keep Ali going.
Danmann is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 03:11 AM   #49
devon
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,108
vCash: 75
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
To make the millions it bought in and cause it had to be made to unite title, people would not stand for split title then. If Ali loses two in row, he is gone, or at least on shelf, and Frazier would not bring in same amount of money. Frazier winning once was ok, but twice, they would not let it happen. Same with Norton. Norton gets decision he deserves in second fight, Ali is out of picture for a while. A Norton defense does not make some money as Ali does. Norton got robbed as bad as anyone ever got robbed. They ****ed him over twice to keep Ali going.
Have you actually watched the 2nd Frazier and Norton fights Ali won both of those no contest. There was no controversy in either of those fights. Prove me wrong by providing some evidence that the fights were fixed other than Ali would make them more money.
devon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 03:15 AM   #50
Danmann
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,108
vCash: 500
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by devon View Post
Have you actually watched the 2nd Frazier and Norton fights Ali won both of those no contest. There was no controversy in either of those fights. Prove me wrong by providing some evidence that the fights were fixed other than Ali would make them more money.
How can you say that.No controversy???? You must be kidding.
Danmann is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 02:21 PM   #51
Danmann
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,108
vCash: 500
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Here is one article written day after fight, it mentions that many felt Frazier won, as I did. I thought due ot the excessive holding (and refusal to break when ordered to by ref) Frazier deserved ddecison.


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Danmann is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 02:50 PM   #52
Danmann
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,108
vCash: 500
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

I don;t want to get away form topic, sorry. I think four best ever, guys I would pick over anyone but other 3, are Tyson Marciano Louis and Depmpsy. Marciano is one I pick on top, cause if it came down to making a money bet on fight, he is the one I could not see betting agaisnt.

Jeffires is tough to figure, film of him and others of era were not high quality, but many said he stood out in that era. I left him of my list.
Danmann is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 04:06 PM   #53
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

1- Louis
2- Ali
3- Holmes
4- Marciano
5- Lewis
6- Foreman
7- Frazier
8- Holyfield
9- Johnson
10- Dempsey

11- Tyson
12- Schmeling
13- Jeffries
14- Tunney
15- Liston

Edit - I forgot Wlad.....well, I wonīt rate him anyway since he is still an active champion ...
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 04:08 PM   #54
Andrei00
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 373
vCash: 460
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
"Many in the capacity crowd believing the decision should have gone the other way."
A few Smoke fans thought he won. What of it? Ali won the fight deservedly, you don't look at a fight and give rounds to Frazier because Ali held a lot.
If Ali outboxed him, he got the round. Simple as.

EDIT: Also, Frazier had the heart of a lion.
I admit I didn't watch the fight so I can't put my own opinion out here, but I've read there were many people who tought Frazier should have won the fight, or at least Clay should have been penalized for the holding. Anyway, I watched their last bout, and had Frazier slightly ahead on cards after 14 rounds. There are also rumours that Clay was going to quit, Joe's son even tells in a documentary about how a friend of theirs who was near Clay's corner was trying to communicate with them and convince them not to quit, because Clay was going to do it.

I've also read about people considering that Norton should have won at least 2 out of their 3 bouts.
Andrei00 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #55
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
Here is one article written day after fight, it mentions that many felt Frazier won, as I did. I thought due ot the excessive holding (and refusal to break when ordered to by ref) Frazier deserved ddecison.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Frazier won the second fight IMO too (last time I watched) and the third one was even in my scorecard when Futch stopped it....
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 03:09 PM   #56
PhillyPhan69
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 3,881
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekcutnevets View Post
Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champion ever, .
NO! Youngest BELT holder, but Patterson still holds this claim!
PhillyPhan69 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 03:12 PM   #57
PhillyPhan69
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 3,881
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
Frazier won the second fight IMO too (last time I watched) and the third one was even in my scorecard when Futch stopped it....
Wow, I am a Frazier, fan and felt he performed horribly and remain baffled when people claim he potentially won this fight. I wish I saw what you saw, but no matter how I try Ali takes this one for me....I would thank you if you could convince me otherwise.
PhillyPhan69 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 03:15 PM   #58
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
Wow, I am a Frazier, fan and felt he performed horribly and remain baffled when people claim he potentially won this fight. I wish I saw what you saw, but no matter how I try Ali takes this one for me....I would thank you if you could convince me otherwise.
I canīt convince you since I watched this for the last time literally 2 years ago ( I believe ).....the only thing I can remember is my disagreement with the final result.....
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 03:31 PM   #59
turbotime
Future Hall Of Famer
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: LA/Canada
Posts: 18,342
vCash: 816
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

01 Ali
02 Louis
03 Holmes
04 Marciano
05 Lewis
06 Foreman
07 Johnson
08 Frazier
09 Holyfield
10 Dempsey
11 Tyson
12 Liston
13 Jefferies
14 Walcott
15 Wlad
turbotime is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2012, 10:54 PM   #60
HOUDINI
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Default Re: Top 15 Heavyweights ever?

The hwts deserving to be in the top 10 are as follows in chronological order....

Johnson
Dempsey
Tunney
Louis
Marciano
Ali
Foreman
Holmes
Lewis
Tyson

I would love to be able to rate Jeffries but films of him prime are so hard to follow.
HOUDINI is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013