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Old 08-04-2012, 12:40 PM   #16
thistle1
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

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Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
This

And I don't put any LH in history in a "class above" Lewis. There may be some who could have beaten him, but never to the point where you'd think JHL was out of his league.
I think this is true of ALL Great fighters...
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

[quote=Surf-Bat;13517251]
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Originally Posted by Hookie View Post
:

"Ezzard Charles was a much better fighter than Lewis".

Hiya Hooks. Gotta disagree with you here. Better fighter? IMO, yes. MUCH better? I doubt anyone who was around back then who saw both men fight would have agreed with you. Lewis was a smooth boxing, hard-hitting and iron-chinned fighter with good speed and an endless reserve of stamina. What department (other than resume) do you feel that Charles was so superior in?

Lewis has a very good resume, but Charles' resume is much better.

Charles does indeed have the better resume. But JHL's is nothing to sneeze at.
They were both all-time greats. I say Charles is much better because he was able to look great and be great vs. better opponents (yes, much better actually).

Ever see a prime Vinny Pazienza work out? The man looks as good as any boxer who ever did it, seriously. Now, does that really mean anything? No, indeed it doesn't! What the hell am I really talking about? lol Well, I'll tell ya-

John Henry Lewis looked great vs. a lower level of opponent (overall) than Charles did. Come on, Charles fought Moore x3, Burley x2, Bivins x5, Marshall x3, Maxim x5, Ray x2, Louis, Walcott x4, Marciano x2 (in his 98th and 99th pro fights), and others.

No disrespect to Lewis... and I do think he gets overlooked.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

[b][quote=Hookie;13521545:[/B]
John Henry Lewis looked great vs. a lower level of opponent (overall) than Charles did. Come on, Charles fought Moore x3, Burley x2, Bivins x5, Marshall x3, Maxim x5, Ray x2, Louis, Walcott x4, Marciano x2 (in his 98th and 99th pro fights), and others.

Well, let's just talk LH prime for prime here. Lewis beat Al Gainer(twice) and Tiger Jack Fox, both of whom could easily make any top 10 of hardest-hitting LHWs. In fact I would say that Gainer was a more formidable and dangerous opponent than Lloyd Marshall. He hit harder and- unlike Marshall- had a cast-iron jaw. Fox was one of the most feared fighters of his era.

Lewis fought Maxie Rosenbloom 5 times. Rosenbloom compares favorably with any LH on Charles' resume. One of the most difficult 175 pounders to beat ever. Bob Olin x3, Jim Braddock x2, Tony Shucco x2 (a notoriously difficult fighter who compares favorably to Maxim), Fred Lenhart x2, Yale Okun x2, Len Harvey, Jock McAvoy, Young Firpo, Lou Scozza...

That's an incredible resume from a strong LH era. I have no doubt that Lewis would have been one of the top 5 fighters in Charles' era and could have beaten several of the fighters you named in a multi-fight series (yes, including Archie Moore).

No disrespect to Lewis... and I do think he gets overlooked.

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Old 08-06-2012, 02:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

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I don't care how much Archie Moore tried to talk up John Henry Lewis... Ezzard Charles was a much better fighter than Lewis. Charles went 3-0 (1) vs. Moore btw.

Lewis has a very good resume, but Charles' resume is much better.

Charles by decisive decision.
Charles was arguably the greatest light heavyweight ever. Didn't have too much trouble with the great Archie Moore. So I would pick Charles over pretty much any light heavy.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

Like I said, Lewis was great and he doesn't get mentioned enough... still I say Charles was better and his resume was better.

Slapsie Maxie Rosenbloom was tough to beat, as a matter of fact he went 3-2 vs. Lewis.

Elmer Ray lost to Lewis (LKOby12) but he was only 5-7-3 (2) going into the fight. He had recently been stopped in 3 rounds by Jersey Joe Walcott. Needless to say he had not yet peaked when he fought the much more experienced Lewis.

Jimmy Braddock- he went 1-1 vs.

Tiger Jack Fox- good fighter, good win (KO3)

Al Ettore, Al Gainer, Bob Olin, and company- good fighters but not as good as Bivins, Marshall, Burley, Maxim, Moore, and some others.

Lewis over Moore? I doubt it. Lewis is more on the Harold Johnson level IMO, no shame in that.

Yes, Johnson beat Charles but the fight was very close and Charles was 137 years old.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:17 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

[quote=Hookie;13534162] still I say Charles was better and his resume was better.

I agree. But that was never the argument

Slapsie Maxie Rosenbloom was tough to beat, as a matter of fact he went 3-2 vs. Lewis.

Actually, one of those wins was hotly disputed.



Al Ettore, Al Gainer, Bob Olin, and company- good fighters but not as good as Bivins, Marshall, Burley, Maxim, Moore, and some others.

Read up on Al Gainer. He was BETTER than Maxim imo and I would favor him over Marshall and Burley in a fight(Burley too small. Gainer beat ranking heavyweights). Bivins and Moore at their best would prbably outbox him, but they would be tremendous fights. Make no mistake.

Lewis over Moore? I doubt it. Lewis is more on the Harold Johnson level IMO, no shame in that.

Yes and Johnson gave Archie all sorts of problems, didn't he? So did Jimmy Bivins and Charley Burley. All boxers, which were the types that gave Moore the most trouble. Lewis was was every bit the fighter that those guys were. Give him three bouts with Moore and I would almost guarantee he takes one and gives him all he wants in the others. Lesser fighters than JHL gave Archie a tough night.

All in all, I don't disagree with you regarding the overall outcome of Charles vs. Lewis. But you made it sound as if it would be a piece of cake and that JHL wouldn't even be competitive. Anyone who was around back then would tell you that Lewis would give ANY version of Charles the fight of his life. No question.

Best,

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Old 08-06-2012, 07:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

Short footage of Lewis knocking down a sparring partner:

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Old 08-06-2012, 07:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

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Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Short footage of Lewis knocking down a sparring partner:

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Good stuff. Thanks.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

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Charles easily. Lewis was good,but Ezzard was a class above.
From memory Eddie Futch said Lewis was the second best 175 he ever saw. Conn was first.
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:14 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

A lot of people have said a lot of things.

George Foreman said Reggie Johnson was an all-time great LHW. I like Reggie Johnson and he probably could have done a little more in his career with a few breaks here and there but overall he came up a little short in his biggest fights. At LHW he really didn't do too much.

Mickey Goldstein told Rocky Balboa that if he could catch a chicken he could catch greased lightning. He also told him he was gonna eat thunder and crap lightning.

Anyway, opinions are like assholes... everybody has one and most of them stink like shit! I'd rather look at what really happened and base my opinion in fact.
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:14 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

Muhammad Ali said Buster Douglas would KO Evander Holyfield.
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

Ezzard would probably beat John Henry in 9-6 rounds.
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:05 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ezzard Charles vs John Henry Lewis?

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Originally Posted by Hookie View Post
I don't care how much Archie Moore tried to talk up John Henry Lewis... Ezzard Charles was a much better fighter than Lewis. Charles went 3-0 (1) vs. Moore btw.

Lewis has a very good resume, but Charles' resume is much better.

Charles by decisive decision.
Charles by a 8th round ko. Ezzard was a much better fighter.
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