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Old 08-27-2012, 07:03 PM   #181
ThaWiseJester
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali is overrated

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Originally Posted by dyna View Post
once you delete bums and cruisers and overlate KOs (= in round 13+) off the record (to have a more realistic assessment of his KO power as compared to modern heavyweight times) you find out that Ali scored the following SEVEN KOs in his entire career.

Sonny Liston (1st fight): Sonny (most probably 37 years old, thus probably Ali's second oldest opponent), retired on his chair due to a shoulder problem

Sonny Liston (2nd fight): The most contested KO in heavyweight history for several reasons, for example: The referee didn't even start to count

Cleveland Williams: Williams was gun-shot prior to the bout, had intestines removed, parts of the kidney, couldn't train properly and came to fight with a limping and atrophied leg (you can see how the left leg is thinner than the right one). This fight was a disgrace for boxing.

Ron Lyle: The referee stops the fight without a proper knockdown. (wikipedia) "Ali then hit Lyle with a strong right hand and then followed up by hitting Lyle with an unanswered combination before the referee hastily stopped the fight. However, Lyle's corner was not happy with the referee’s decision to stop the fight, Lyle was interviewed after the fight and had no visible signs of injury. Given the nature of most fights in the same era, before and after the fight, the stoppage was very unusual"

Alvin Lewis: Referee stops the fight for Lewis being on his legs but extremely exhausted. Lewis was 224 lbs and this makes it Ali's heaviest KO win.

Zora Folley: An uncontested KO, however Zora Folley was only 202 lbs and nearly 11 years older than Ali.
(With even a little bit of dehydration he would be a cruiser, and many cruisers do/did dehydrate. (Haye for example))

George Foreman: A contested KO due to the circumstances:

The fight happened in the rain forest (open air) during the rain season in Africa ("Rumble in the jungle")
Foreman was held captive by the regime
Foreman was life threatened and had to import food from the USA
Ali's trainer admits to have manipulated the ropes
Ali's co-trainer claimed he paid the cooks to poison Foreman
and Foreman indeed to this very day insists he was poisoned ("I climbed into the ring with that medicinal taste still lingering in my mouth")
Great points "Even though it is blasphemous!"
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:16 PM   #182
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali is overrated






Of the 61 fights that Clay/Ali fought 29 wouldn't be allowed nowadays as heavyweight because one or both opponents were below 200 lbs at the time of the bout. In other words they would run as cruiser fights (or below) and Klitschko wouldn't be allowed to stage them.
Of the remaining 32 fights Ali lost 4.
Of the remaining 28 fights Ali fought 10x against opponents LIGHTER than Eddie Chambers (Wladimir Klitschko's lightest opponent), thus today's fans would shout "they should move down to cruiserweight" and "it's proof of how the division sucks" or what a mismatch it is.
Of the remaining 18 fights 2 wouldn't be allowed for medical reasons: Joe Frazier was blind on his left eye and Cleveland Williams was gunshot. Another proof of the "dire state of the division"
Of the remaining 16 fights Ali couldn't KO his opponents in 10 fights (within 12 rounds) thus they would be "proof of how featherfisty Wlad is with a KO'ratio of 38%" and that "Marciano would KO this bum Wlad in 1 round"
Of the remaining 6 fights 1 was a bum ·Charley Powell (25-11) which would be another proof for the "worst era in heavyweight boxing"
Of the remaining 5 fights 2 were against guys coming off a loss (Ron Lyle, Alvin Lewis) and fans would accuse Wlad of "cherry-picking".
Of the remaining 3 fights 2 were against a cruiser-bum beater (Sonny Liston) and fans would speculate about how the mob or Wladimir's radical Muslim friends have illegally influenced the outcome, since both endings (shoulder injury, phantom punch) were highly suspicious. Fans would complain that Sonny Liston didn't come to fight since he chickened out as soon as he saw fit.
The remaining 1 fight was against an opponent who gassed in the heat and sultriness of the rain season in the rain forest (George Foreman) and fans would shout "Lame, nowadays heavies cannot go 15 rounds anymore like Joe Louis".
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:19 PM   #183
ThaWiseJester
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali is overrated

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Originally Posted by dyna View Post
Of the 61 fights that Clay/Ali fought 29 wouldn't be allowed nowadays as heavyweight because one or both opponents were below 200 lbs at the time of the bout. In other words they would run as cruiser fights (or below) and Klitschko wouldn't be allowed to stage them.
Of the remaining 32 fights Ali lost 4.
Of the remaining 28 fights Ali fought 10x against opponents LIGHTER than Eddie Chambers (Wladimir Klitschko's lightest opponent), thus today's fans would shout "they should move down to cruiserweight" and "it's proof of how the division sucks" or what a mismatch it is.
Of the remaining 18 fights 2 wouldn't be allowed for medical reasons: Joe Frazier was blind on his left eye and Cleveland Williams was gunshot. Another proof of the "dire state of the division"
Of the remaining 16 fights Ali couldn't KO his opponents in 10 fights (within 12 rounds) thus they would be "proof of how featherfisty Wlad is with a KO'ratio of 38%" and that "Marciano would KO this bum Wlad in 1 round"
Of the remaining 6 fights 1 was a bum ·Charley Powell (25-11) which would be another proof for the "worst era in heavyweight boxing"
Of the remaining 5 fights 2 were against guys coming off a loss (Ron Lyle, Alvin Lewis) and fans would accuse Wlad of "cherry-picking".
Of the remaining 3 fights 2 were against a cruiser-bum beater (Sonny Liston) and fans would speculate about how the mob or Wladimir's radical Muslim friends have illegally influenced the outcome, since both endings (shoulder injury, phantom punch) were highly suspicious. Fans would complain that Sonny Liston didn't come to fight since he chickened out as soon as he saw fit.
The remaining 1 fight was against an opponent who gassed in the heat and sultriness of the rain season in the rain forest (George Foreman) and fans would shout "Lame, nowadays heavies cannot go 15 rounds anymore like Joe Louis".
You really did your homework didn't you.. Didn't ESB tell you that ALL athletes evolve and get better EXCEPT boxing???
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