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Old 09-07-2012, 11:35 AM   #1
Big N Bad
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Default Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

i've noticed the old school guys dont have any S&C coaches and no set routines yet are always progressing even more so than the guys who have strict so called advanced routines.

in my time watching boxing for more than a few years now, calzaghe has the best stamina and work rate i have ever seen and he used simple joe frazier style training.

heres george foremans routine.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
again, plenty of running, woodchopping and bagwork, plenty of sparring and some weights.
but what interested me was how little george ate for a big guy, unless the few times a fay he did eat, they must have been large potions.

looking at big george, he never got tired in his second career. always punching, coming forward and had power from round 1 - 12.

and then you get todays guys, eating 7000 calories, waking up in the middle of the night to drink protein shakes cos their S&C told them depriving them of their sleep (wtf)! doing really explosive workouts day in day out, getting injured in training because of it AND still tiring out during the fight.

jim jeffries must have been right when he said 'you'd be surprised how little a big man could eat and still be strong' and his routine and diet was similar to big george' and you know who tough and durable JJ was!
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:59 AM   #2
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

its only the internet that confuses people
food doesnt change if you eat right and know how it works for what you're aiming for, and neither does hard work

just think what your grandparents ate and go from there
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big N Bad View Post
i've noticed the old school guys dont have any S&C coaches and no set routines yet are always progressing even more so than the guys who have strict so called advanced routines.

in my time watching boxing for more than a few years now, calzaghe has the best stamina and work rate i have ever seen and he used simple joe frazier style training.

heres george foremans routine.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
again, plenty of running, woodchopping and bagwork, plenty of sparring and some weights.
but what interested me was how little george ate for a big guy, unless the few times a fay he did eat, they must have been large potions.

looking at big george, he never got tired in his second career. always punching, coming forward and had power from round 1 - 12.

and then you get todays guys, eating 7000 calories, waking up in the middle of the night to drink protein shakes cos their S&C told them depriving them of their sleep (wtf)! doing really explosive workouts day in day out, getting injured in training because of it AND still tiring out during the fight.

jim jeffries must have been right when he said 'you'd be surprised how little a big man could eat and still be strong' and his routine and diet was similar to big george' and you know who tough and durable JJ was!
Allow me to argue...
You are basically saying the old-timers did different things different ways, this is why they were better than the modern guys, right?

You mentioned the second coming of Big George...Well, first of all, he became a believer. Maybe this is the most important different between modern and old fighter?

I am not talking about the religion and such..More generally, beliefs spring actions. Modern generation believes that nutrition, special exercises, routines
can provide a shortcut. These beliefs explain their action. I guess, and it is almost conviction, that old timers just did not believe in shortcut. This is it!
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Allow me to argue...
You are basically saying the old-timers did different things different ways, this is why they were better than the modern guys, right?

You mentioned the second coming of Big George...Well, first of all, he became a believer. Maybe this is the most important different between modern and old fighter?

I am not talking about the religion and such..More generally, beliefs spring actions. Modern generation believes that nutrition, special exercises, routines
can provide a shortcut. These beliefs explain their action. I guess, and it is almost conviction, that old timers just did not believe in shortcut. This is it!
im saying the proof is in the pudding. guys from 30+ years ago had better stamina, did 15 rounds. these days with all these diet programs, S&C stuff, guys are getting tired quicker.

btw every fighter trains differently
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big N Bad View Post
i've noticed the old school guys dont have any S&C coaches and no set routines yet are always progressing even more so than the guys who have strict so called advanced routines.

in my time watching boxing for more than a few years now, calzaghe has the best stamina and work rate i have ever seen and he used simple joe frazier style training.

heres george foremans routine.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
again, plenty of running, woodchopping and bagwork, plenty of sparring and some weights.
but what interested me was how little george ate for a big guy, unless the few times a fay he did eat, they must have been large potions.

looking at big george, he never got tired in his second career. always punching, coming forward and had power from round 1 - 12.

and then you get todays guys, eating 7000 calories, waking up in the middle of the night to drink protein shakes cos their S&C told them depriving them of their sleep (wtf)! doing really explosive workouts day in day out, getting injured in training because of it AND still tiring out during the fight.

jim jeffries must have been right when he said 'you'd be surprised how little a big man could eat and still be strong' and his routine and diet was similar to big george' and you know who tough and durable JJ was!
Guys from 30 years ago also fought a lot more frequently, and generally had some seriously tough sparring sessions. This helps explain it largely in my opinion; they were never out of shape because they fought every week or even twice a week and fought more rounds. They also didn't have access to the nutrition we had today so (generally) were of a smaller build and had less muscle mass on them to tire them out.

I can see what you are saying though. Old school style training, diet, and importantly fighting schedule probably lead to a better conditioned fighter. But that is really what you are focussing on here - stamina. I would argue that many of today's fighters are physically stronger specimens who are often faster and more explosive (or if not, just hit harder) - albeit sometimes at the expense of their endurance. Some fighters don't get the balance right - David Haye I believe does more explosive work than endurance work; he can punch fast and explosively but cannot maintain it. Wlad Klitschko has to pace himself too - but again, very explosive. Modern sports science in boxing often tries to balance explosiveness, strength and endurance all at once. It's hard to do in one body. Look at most sprinters' builds and then look at marathon runners' builds; they are very different.

I would also argue that Foreman's stamina later in his career was better because he paced himself better; generally I would say that big, strong men like Foreman are always more disposed to getting tired than the lighter framed guys. The dangerous fighters are the small framed, fast men who punch like animals. It's not that often you see a tremendously powerful man who is physically strong who can fight with a high output for 12 or 15 rounds. There have been few big men who could really bang, were strong and could throw lots of shots (Joe Frazier was a rare exception, even he only weighed 205-210 at his peak - small by heavyweight standards). Notice how many of today's heavyweights are huge - 240lb plus - it's simply not conducive to good stamina - whatever era you are fighting in. If they fought more frequently, sparred a lot and ate less then they would have better stamina - but would generally struggle with the much bigger guys in terms of strength and weight. It's all swings and roundabouts. In some weight divisions old school training could be a real benefit more than others. It's the schedules that are always going to be a problem now though - boxers often do shit all between fights and get fat.

Last edited by godlikerich; 09-07-2012 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Guys from 30 years ago also fought a lot more frequently, and generally had some seriously tough sparring sessions. This helps explain it largely in my opinion; they were never out of shape because they fought every week or even twice a week and fought more rounds. They also didn't have access to the nutrition we had today so (generally) were of a smaller build and had less muscle mass on them to tire them out.

I can see what you are saying though. Old school style training, diet, and importantly fighting schedule probably lead to a better conditioned fighter. But that is really what you are focussing on here - stamina. I would argue that many of today's fighters are physically stronger specimens who are often faster and more explosive (or if not, just hit harder) - albeit sometimes at the expense of their endurance. Some fighters don't get the balance right - David Haye I believe does more explosive work than endurance work; he can punch fast and explosively but cannot maintain it. Wlad Klitschko has to pace himself too - but again, very explosive. Modern sports science in boxing often tries to balance explosiveness, strength and endurance all at once. It's hard to do in one body. Look at most sprinters' builds and then look at marathon runners' builds; they are very different.

I would also argue that Foreman's stamina later in his career was better because he paced himself better; generally I would say that big, strong men like Foreman are always more disposed to getting tired than the lighter framed guys. The dangerous fighters are the small framed, fast men who punch like animals. It's not that often you see a tremendously powerful man who is physically strong who can fight with a high output for 12 or 15 rounds. There have been few big men who could really bang, were strong and could throw lots of shots (Joe Frazier was a rare exception, even he only weighed 205-210 at his peak - small by heavyweight standards). Notice how many of today's heavyweights are huge - 240lb plus - it's simply not conducive to good stamina - whatever era you are fighting in. If they fought more frequently, sparred a lot and ate less then they would have better stamina - but would generally struggle with the much bigger guys in terms of strength and weight. It's all swings and roundabouts. In some weight divisions old school training could be a real benefit more than others. It's the schedules that are always going to be a problem now though - boxers often do shit all between fights and get fat.
Good post
we can respect each others opinions.

i personally think punching power is a hard one to explain. a puncher is born not made. i dont think the HW's today are hitting any harder than the boys back in the days. maybe a little stronger strength wise (maybe due to extra weight) even that i doubt cos an old foreman was throwing the 90's crop of guys around like morrison, cooney, holyfield, briggs and we know these guys arn't weaklings.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Good post
we can respect each others opinions.

i personally think punching power is a hard one to explain. a puncher is born not made. i dont think the HW's today are hitting any harder than the boys back in the days. maybe a little stronger strength wise (maybe due to extra weight) even that i doubt cos an old foreman was throwing the 90's crop of guys around like morrison, cooney, holyfield, briggs and we know these guys arn't weaklings.
Thanks. Yours too. It is indeed. I would agree with you to an extent. I mean I would never argue that Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Louis, Lyle, Cleveland Williams, Marciano could not compete power wise with today's heavies because they could. Foreman was stronger than all those guys no doubt. But Foreman isn't your standard heavy.

Foreman was a freak of nature - he was a big man in the 70's and he was a big man in the 90's - he was just a hugely powerful man in any era. Kind of like Sonny Liston would have been or Jim Jeffries - so strong. They aren't your typical fighter though. I would say the average heavy is a stronger man, but the power is so dependent on the individual. I would argue that the average modern heavy is a more powerful hitter - but only slightly so. The older heavies had, in special fighters, that rare combination - the speed and smaller build, but tremendous power; Joe Louis is a a good example.

Personally I prefer the older style of fighter - the guy who was smaller but who had speed, endurance and threw more punches. We still see that in the lighter divisions to be fair. Just the heavies are so big and strong and carry so much weight they simply cannot do it. I personally don't think the strength and slight power increase is worth the loss of endurance and action that results in more punches thrown and landed. I miss the days of the strong, quick, perfectly muscled, 215lb heavyweight who was not a lumbering tank.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Originally Posted by NVSemin View Post
Allow me to argue...
You are basically saying the old-timers did different things different ways, this is why they were better than the modern guys, right?

You mentioned the second coming of Big George...Well, first of all, he became a believer. Maybe this is the most important different between modern and old fighter?

I am not talking about the religion and such..More generally, beliefs spring actions. Modern generation believes that nutrition, special exercises, routines
can provide a shortcut. These beliefs explain their action. I guess, and it is almost conviction, that old timers just did not believe in shortcut. This is it!
I didn't know nutrition, special exercises ( bag work maybe?) and routines were considered a shortcut. also, your being way to general by saying this gen. there's plenty of fighters currently that are training almost identically to old timers.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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Thanks. Yours too. It is indeed. I would agree with you to an extent. I mean I would never argue that Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Louis, Lyle, Cleveland Williams, Marciano could not compete power wise with today's heavies because they could. Foreman was stronger than all those guys no doubt. But Foreman isn't your standard heavy.

Foreman was a freak of nature - he was a big man in the 70's and he was a big man in the 90's - he was just a hugely powerful man in any era. Kind of like Sonny Liston would have been or Jim Jeffries - so strong. They aren't your typical fighter though. I would say the average heavy is a stronger man, but the power is so dependent on the individual. I would argue that the average modern heavy is a more powerful hitter - but only slightly so. The older heavies had, in special fighters, that rare combination - the speed and smaller build, but tremendous power; Joe Louis is a a good example.

Personally I prefer the older style of fighter - the guy who was smaller but who had speed, endurance and threw more punches. We still see that in the lighter divisions to be fair. Just the heavies are so big and strong and carry so much weight they simply cannot do it. I personally don't think the strength and slight power increase is worth the loss of endurance and action that results in more punches thrown and landed. I miss the days of the strong, quick, perfectly muscled, 215lb heavyweight who was not a lumbering tank.
You mean that nowadays heavy weight sized people are just simply overbuilt for the hell of being big, but stamina is unable to catch up to such a human size???
(I'm starting to think human sizes become inefficient after a certain height/weight ratio especially the tallest ones, and were never meant to be that big in the first place)
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

This crap again?
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

Our contact with our Ancestors, have a lot to say Genetically, we dont listen.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big N Bad View Post
i've noticed the old school guys dont have any S&C coaches and no set routines yet are always progressing even more so than the guys who have strict so called advanced routines.

in my time watching boxing for more than a few years now, calzaghe has the best stamina and work rate i have ever seen and he used simple joe frazier style training.

heres george foremans routine.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
again, plenty of running, woodchopping and bagwork, plenty of sparring and some weights.
but what interested me was how little george ate for a big guy, unless the few times a fay he did eat, they must have been large potions.

looking at big george, he never got tired in his second career. always punching, coming forward and had power from round 1 - 12.

and then you get todays guys, eating 7000 calories, waking up in the middle of the night to drink protein shakes cos their S&C told them depriving them of their sleep (wtf)! doing really explosive workouts day in day out, getting injured in training because of it AND still tiring out during the fight.

jim jeffries must have been right when he said 'you'd be surprised how little a big man could eat and still be strong' and his routine and diet was similar to big george' and you know who tough and durable JJ was!
Let's all do 300 sit-ups and jog for 12 miles a day instead... Pointless stuff.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

I think the food of today has a lot to do with it as look at all the food of today with loads of extra crap thrown in whereas back in the day they would have there own growing crops straight from farms or eat a freshly killed animal with no added shit thrown in.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

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I think the food of today has a lot to do with it as look at all the food of today with loads of extra crap thrown in whereas back in the day they would have there own growing crops straight from farms or eat a freshly killed animal with no added shit thrown in.
Please explain in more detail, or do you not have a clue what you're talking about?
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:22 AM   #15
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Default Re: Old school training routines seem to be the simplest and most effective!

Sure,sure,i suggest banging heads to a wall as well cause it makes your chin harder.And punching trees with bare hands,that is awesome as well.
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