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Old 09-16-2012, 08:38 AM   #16
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post


Yeah, they should make everything revolve around the fighters.
Considering I tune in, and I would assume the majority tune in, to watch them and really would not care if Dana White got hit by a truck. If you want to watch the Mafia Bros and Dana count money then fine. I'm sure he'll put a little UFC logo in the corner and charge you $50 bucks for that pleasure.

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**** the promotional company that travels internationally to host shows in new markets around the globe at massive expense to themselves.
And? He gets paid money, he doesn't do this for a charity.
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**** the company that struggled and spent millions to get MMA to the stage where it is actually considered a real sport.
And? He saw a business opportunity and become wealthy off that. The money people have paid is more than enough gratitude.

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And **** the promotor who tells the fans exactly what he's thinking and tries to make the matchups that the fans want to see.
And? And no he doesn't try to make fans the matchups they want to see, he tries to make himself as much money as possible. If the two overlap so be it, As witnessed by the fact he put on the shittiest card in existence that was dependent on exactly one fight.

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What MMA really needs is a handful of fighters making $20 million per fight, like it is in boxing. That way they can fight six times in six years, like Mayweather. And that way if Shogun doesn't feel like defending his title against Jones, he just wouldn't fight him. Why would he fight Bones for $20 million when he can make $12-15 million to fight Vera? Sure the fans wanted to see him fight Jones, but **** them. He'd rather hang onto the belt and pick and choose a walkover defence once a year.

Considering they are now expected to carry cards solo from now on, might as well demand a much larger share of the pie at stake. Since the entire card tilted on Jones' back, why shouldn't Jones demand the most money? The rest of your argument really doesn't matter. Are you trying to say guys who are the entire reason people tune into shows should get paid less because of some sense of loyalty to Dana White? Are you nuts? This is business, there is nothing called loyalty here. Dana is loyal to only himself and why should Jones be any different?
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Yeah, they should make everything revolve around the fighters.
My God...my ****ing brain is about to explode
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:01 PM   #18
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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Originally Posted by Atlanta View Post
Considering I tune in, and I would assume the majority tune in, to watch them and really would not care if Dana White got hit by a truck. If you want to watch the Mafia Bros and Dana count money then fine. I'm sure he'll put a little UFC logo in the corner and charge you $50 bucks for that pleasure.
You tune in to what? Primetime live MMA on the Fox network? PPV cards that are easy to buy at home, or are showing at sports bars all over the city? If not for what Dana and Zuffa have done, you're basically not watching MMA at all. If you are, it's tiny shows with zero media coverage or relevance in the sporting world. Or it's imported shows from overseas a couple of times per year.

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And? He gets paid money, he doesn't do this for a charity.

And? He saw a business opportunity and become wealthy off that. The money people have paid is more than enough gratitude.
You're bitching because he wants to make money?

He can't make shitloads of money while trying to grow the sport for the long-term?

I'm not a fan of EVERYTHING that Zuffa has done.

But I respect that MMA in the West was totally irrelevant and effectively extinct when Zuffa came along. Now, it's in the mainstream. Fight cards are advertised during NFL games. The SPORT has crossed over now, and created opportunities for MMA fighters and promotors all over the world. That is becuase of Zuffa and the UFC.

Wind the clock back a mere 10 years. Look at the state of MMA. Totally irrelevant. Nobody gave a shit. UFC40 featured Ken vs Tito, plus a Liddell fight AND Matt Hughes defending his title. It was the biggest and most successful MMA event ever held on American soil up to that point, by FAR. And it sold as many PPVs as Wanderlei vs Franklin, the weakest card in years.

You call yourself a Western MMA fan, but you shit all over Dana and Zuffa and have nothing positive to say about what they have done for the sport? Time to grow up, eh?

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Originally Posted by Atlanta View Post
And? And no he doesn't try to make fans the matchups they want to see, he tries to make himself as much money as possible. If the two overlap so be it, As witnessed by the fact he put on the shittiest card in existence that was dependent on exactly one fight.
He sure as hell tries to give the fans the fights they want to see.

And yeah, Jones vs Hendo was a weak card. But it's worth remembering that Ellenberger-Koscheck was supposed to be the main undercard fight, which is not a bad supporting fight. Dana can't help it if guys get injured, and it'll happen more often with Zuffa. Because, unlike every other MMA org ever, they cover medical costs for their fighters. And maybe something could have been done with the main event, if Hendo hadn't been so secretive about his injury until the last possible second.

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Considering they are now expected to carry cards solo from now on, might as well demand a much larger share of the pie at stake. Since the entire card tilted on Jones' back, why shouldn't Jones demand the most money?
Sure, that sounds great.

Instead of spending big money on international flights and hotels for dozens of people so that they can host an event in Sweden or Sydney and give a new audience the chance to see and feel involved in big-time MMA, let's give Jon Jones $25 million to have him fight in Vegas once a year.

Let's turn all the champions into spoiled multi-multi-millionaires who pick and choose their fights and do whatever they want, like it is in boxing.

Let's make sure that EVERY employee of the UFC earns $150k plus. Let's pay the totally interchangeable journeymen undercard guys $50k for a fight.

Instead of investing in new markets and spending money trying to grow the sport internationally, let's stay at home in Vegas for every event. More money to give the fighters that way, you see.

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Originally Posted by Atlanta View Post
Are you trying to say guys who are the entire reason people tune into shows should get paid less because of some sense of loyalty to Dana White? Are you nuts? This is business, there is nothing called loyalty here. Dana is loyal to only himself and why should Jones be any different?
How much should Jon Jones be earning?

He's a 25 year old multi-millionaire who competes in a sport that essentially didn't exist ten years ago. And two years ago, nobody knew who the **** Jon Jones was. Now, because of the UFC, he's a multi-millionaire who has an international endorsement deal with Nike. Just like Federer and Tiger. That's not enough? He needs more or Zuffa is somehow ripping him off?

Who owes more to the other - Jon Jones or the UFC? Who needed who more? Dana can and did make money without Jon Jones. How rich is Jon Jones, without Zuffa to put him in front of the people?

Forgive me if I don't feel too sorry for Jon Jones when he moans about how hard-done by he is.


Last edited by Haggis McJackass; 09-16-2012 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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My God...my ****ing brain is about to explode
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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My God...my ****ing brain is about to explode
It's not about giving the fighters everything they want or could dream of, Stoo. It's about US. The fans. And I'd prefer to see the UFC spend $5 million on trying to grow the sport and generate interest in new markets, as opposed to having that extra $5 million disappear into Chael's pocket, never to be seen again.

Fighters who don't distinguish themselves, don't sell tickets and aren't close to the top levels of their profession don't deserve to earn anything more than a living wage.

Fighters who are always on the main card and who are threats to break into title contention deserve to make a comfortable living. And they do.

Fighters who are long-term title contenders, who have a fan following and who have gotten a shot or two at the belt should be millionaires or close to it. And they are.

And high-profile champions who have a couple of defences and who work hard to promote their fights should be multi-millionaires. And they are.

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Old 09-16-2012, 09:04 PM   #21
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
It's not about giving the fighters everything they want or could dream of, Stoo. It's about US. The fans. And I'd prefer to see the UFC spend $5 million on trying to grow the sport and generate interest in new markets, as opposed to having that extra $5 million disappear into Chael's pocket, never to be seen again.

Fighters who don't distinguish themselves, don't sell tickets and aren't close to the top levels of their profession don't deserve to earn anything more than a living wage.

Fighters who are always on the main card and who are threats to break into title contention deserve to make a comfortable living. And they do.

Fighters who are long-term title contenders, who have a fan following and who have gotten a shot or two at the belt should be millionaires or close to it. And they are.

And high-profile champions who have a couple of defences and who work hard to promote their fights should be multi-millionaires. And they are.

So, basically, fewer than 100 pro MMA fighters "deserve" to make a comfortable living by your estimation?
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:05 PM   #22
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Thumbs up Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post


Yeah, they should make everything revolve around the fighters. **** the promotional company that travels internationally to host shows in new markets around the globe at massive expense to themselves. **** the company that struggled and spent millions to get MMA to the stage where it is actually considered a real sport. And **** the promotor who tells the fans exactly what he's thinking and tries to make the matchups that the fans want to see.

What MMA really needs is a handful of fighters making $20 million per fight, like it is in boxing. That way they can fight six times in six years, like Mayweather. And that way if Shogun doesn't feel like defending his title against Jones, he just wouldn't fight him. Why would he fight Bones for $20 million when he can make $12-15 million to fight Vera? Sure the fans wanted to see him fight Jones, but **** them. He'd rather hang onto the belt and pick and choose a walkover defence once a year.

Right on.
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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So, basically, fewer than 100 pro MMA fighters "deserve" to make a comfortable living by your estimation?
Look at a guy like Joe Lauzon. He's not getting a title fight any time soon, but he's not fighting in the prelims either. He's been around for awhile, and fans like him and enjoy his fights. Good fighter, good company man, good addition to any card, but he's never been talked about as a future champion. There's dozens of guys on Lauzon's level.

If he fights 3x per year and earns one performance bonus, then he'll be earning good money. Not millionaire money, but he'll be driving a nice new car while he avoids a 9 to 5 and chases his dream. If he's good at his job and puts the effort in, then he'll have opportunities to earn in many different ways outside the cage. If he doesn't **** up then he'll make all sorts of connections with opportunities to work and earn and be respected in the sport after he retires.

That's not too bad, I don't think, for a guy who is no more than very good at a sport which was considered a barbaric, only-just-legal irrelevance when he was graduating high school.

And guys who have no particular fan following or world-class skill, who are fighting on prelims, should be earning no more than any other uneducated, unqualified guy who is anonymous in his trade. They don't compete in MMA because it's a safe, comfortable way to pay a mortgage. They do it because they love the competition, and because they don't want to be bored shitless on a job site or in an office. And because if they do really well and catch some good luck along the way, they can achieve real glory and riches.

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Old 09-16-2012, 11:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Look at a guy like Joe Lauzon. He's not getting a title fight any time soon, but he's not fighting in the prelims either. He's been around for awhile, and fans like him and enjoy his fights. Good fighter, good company man, good addition to any card, but he's never been talked about as a future champion. There's dozens of guys on Lauzon's level.

If he fights 3x per year and earns one performance bonus, then he'll be earning good money. Not millionaire money, but he'll be driving a nice new car while he avoids a 9 to 5 and chases his dream. If he's good at his job and puts the effort in, then he'll have opportunities to earn in many different ways outside the cage. If he doesn't **** up then he'll make all sorts of connections with opportunities to work and earn and be respected in the sport after he retires.

That's not too bad, I don't think, for a guy who is no more than very good at a sport which was considered a barbaric, only-just-legal irrelevance when he was graduating high school.

And guys who have no particular fan following or world-class skill, who are fighting on prelims, should be earning no more than any other uneducated, unqualified guy who is anonymous in his trade. They don't compete in MMA because it's a safe, comfortable way to pay a mortgage. They do it because they love the competition, and because they don't want to be bored shitless on a job site or in an office. And because if they do really well and catch some good luck along the way, they can achieve real glory and riches.

What the ****?

Joe Lauzon puts his body on the line fighting in mixed martial arts for our entertainment and you think he deserves A) Not to have to work another job B) a nice car and C) possible career opportunities NOT fighting afterwards + respect?

Dana White risks nothing. Dana White USES guys like Joe Lauzon to make MILLIONS AND MILLIONS for himself and that is perfectly 100% cool with you? All fighters good enough to fight in the UFC deserve good money and compared to other organizations (at least the ones that stay afloat) they do but to say that undercard fighters or fighters who don't earn FOTN bonuses every single fight (Joe Lauzon practically does) deserve a "LIVING WAGE" after having reached the pinnacle of their sport by making it into the UFC is shit.

NFL players don't get paid only a living wage unless they are good enough to make the pro-bowl. BPL players don't make a "living wage". Dana is saying MMA is going to be the world's biggest most popular sport so he should pay his athletes the same way other top athletes get paid.

The MMA structure is better than boxing, but you sure have a lot of hubris deciding someone like Joe Lauzon doesn't deserve a million dollars, claiming that MMA fighters that make it into the UFC but not the main event are the same as "unqualified guys who are anonymous in their trade" and claiming to know why MMA fighters choose to fight. Shame on you, dude.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:39 PM   #25
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:52 PM   #26
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Awesome, debates about fighter pay are what keep me coming back here.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:35 AM   #27
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

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What the ****?

Joe Lauzon puts his body on the line fighting in mixed martial arts for our entertainment and you think he deserves A) Not to have to work another job B) a nice car and C) possible career opportunities NOT fighting afterwards + respect?
Lauzon puts his body on the line fighting in mixed martial arts for HIS entertainment. Because he loves to fight. It's not a selfless act so that we can have something to watch. All of these guys were fighting for free in some form or another for years. They love it so much that they chose to pursue it as a career instead of opting for a safe, normal job. And they get the high of competing in the spotlight, which is what drew them to be an athlete in the first case.

A guy like Lauzon - who is good (but not the best) at his job - is earning much better money than any of my friends. And he's setting himself up for a lifelong career in the sport, if he wants it. He's carving out a very satisfying, rewarding, successful life for himself, doing something that he loves and that was impossible for him to do just a decade ago. Why is that not enough?

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Dana White risks nothing.
Really.

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Dana White USES guys like Joe Lauzon to make MILLIONS AND MILLIONS for himself and that is perfectly 100% cool.
Yes, it is. Before he made millions, he spent millions. He took the financial risks, and believed in his product even when it was going nowhere and bleeding millions. He made the deals and built the organization. He works more hours than any of his fighters and has done for years. He's done more for the company than any of the fighters have. Why shouldn't he earn more than any of the fighters?

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All fighters good enough to fight in the UFC deserve good money and compared to other organizations (at least the ones that stay afloat) they do but to say that undercard fighters or fighters who don't earn FOTN bonuses every single fight (Joe Lauzon practically does) deserve a "LIVING WAGE" after having reached the pinnacle of their sport by making it into the UFC is shit.
Everyone in the premier org gets their medical expenses covered. Anyone who is a main CARD, (not main event) fighter and picks up just one bonus a year is earning good money. And again, this sport is in its infancy.

The "pinnacle" of the sport isn't fighting on a UFC Facebook or prelim bout either.

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NFL players don't get paid a living wage unless they are good enough to make the pro-bowl. BPL players don't make a "living wage".
Shall we take a moment to compare the history, viewership, fanbase and media profile of the NFL and EPL with that of the UFC?

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Dana is saying MMA is going to be the world's biggest most popular sport so he should pay his athletes the same way other top athletes get paid.


It's your contention that Jones, Anderson, GSP etc don't earn enough? Dana should be paying them $10, 15, 20 million per fight?

Or a lower-tier guy like Nam Phan, should the UFC be paying him 2 or 3 million a year like a Manchester United benchwarmer?

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The MMA structure is better than boxing
Yeah and part of that is because the top fighters are all taking orders from the same boss. And the promotional company spends lots of money on actually trying to build the sport. In the last five years, Pacman has fought twice in Texas and every other fight in Vegas. Floyd fights only on his terms, which means once a year in Vegas against someone he doesn't feel might beat him.

In the same time span, Anderson Silva has fought in Brazil, Canada, the Middle East, Ohio, California, Illinois and Pennsylvania.

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but you sure have a lot of hubris deciding someone like Joe Lauzon doesn't deserve a million dollars, claiming that MMA fighters that make it into the UFC but not the main event are the same as "unqualified guys who are anonymous in their trade" and claiming to know why MMA fighters choose to fight. Shame on you, dude.
Why exactly does Joe Lauzon deserve a million dollars? If he deserves it, it's there for him. If he generates enough interest and excitement inside the cage, and works hard and smart enough outside the cage, he'll get there. And good on him if he does.

Also, I said "main card", not "main event." And UFC prelim fighters ARE unqualified, anonymous guys. They didn't go to school to learn a skill or a trade that society deems valuable or necessary. And in their professions, they don't distinguish themselves, don't generate revenue by their personal presence, and are easily replaceable. Being a cage fighter isn't ever going to be a career that provides job security or easy riches. Nor should it be.

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Old 09-17-2012, 12:39 AM   #28
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Awesome, debates about fighter pay are what keep me coming back here.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:41 AM   #29
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What's your take?

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Old 09-17-2012, 05:24 PM   #30
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Default Re: Dana going off on one!!! LOL

I became an MMA fan because of the stacked cards and in turn being sick of shitty cynical boxing cards, staying up all night for a garbage undercard only to have the main event be a massive anti climax, happens time and again.

The only reason the UFC can put these stacked cards on is by leveling the field and not paying silly money to main event fighters. Boxing is actually starting to take this route as shown by many Golden Boy/Top Rank shows now having more than 2 watchable fights, this alone proves White and the UFC have it spot on.

AS soon as fighters like Jones start dictating to the promotion the whole thing will fall like a deck of cards. We need to think outside the box here people.

The top fighters in the UFC will surely make more by towing the line, leaving the massive promotional machine that is the UFC to put you're name out there leaving you as a fighter open to all sorts of extra bonus dollar and notoriety.

eg does Dana White get any of Jones' Nike money?? does he see any of GSP's energy drink cash?? how about Rampage's A team royalties??

Just because Dana White sounds like a red kneck with a headache sometimes does not mean he is not right at least 99% of the time. His vision for the UFC has been nothing short of genius and the company is only half of what it could be, I for one will be devastated if it is stopped from being the world wide success it could be.

Wishing for more power to the fighter may sound all nice and PC but be careful what you wish for, look how much Paq and Floyd get payed to avoid each other when a person like big bad Dana ain't around keeping things in check.

Haggis Mac is right my brothers.
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