White to UFC 152 critics, boo-birds: 'Don't ever buy another UFC pay-per-view again'

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by HeGlassedMe

That must be why he desperately wants to expand outside of the U.S.
The bubble has burst in the U.S.

The most successful market for the UFC is the USA. Outside of the US (apart from Canada thanks to GSP - Brazil thanks to Wand, Nog, Vitor, Silva etc) the UFC has had luke warm success. Again primarily because the cards were seen as sub standard. The UFC needs more home grown stars and it needs them badly. With the aggressive nature of the business this is proving almost impossible. Over saturation is absolutely killing them. They'd be better off holding at least 4-5 less shows a year if they want to remain successful and ensure organisations like SF/PRIDE/WFA/WEC don't get scattered to the four winds as the UFC does its best to tear the complete asshole out of the market.

[dillinja]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

The most successful market for the UFC is the USA. Outside of the US (apart from Canada thanks to GSP - Brazil thanks to Wand, Nog, Vitor, Silva etc) the UFC has had luke warm success. Again primarily because the cards were seen as sub standard. The UFC needs more home grown stars and it needs them badly. With the aggressive nature of the business this is proving almost impossible. Over saturation is absolutely killing them. They'd be better off holding at least 4-5 less shows a year if they want to remain successful and ensure organisations like SF/PRIDE/WFA/WEC don't get scattered to the four winds as the UFC does its best to tear the complete asshole out of the market.

I have said before i think they should have a weekly tv show on free tv with more minor fights and then 6 majpr ppv's per year with stacked cards and at least one title fight.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by dillinja

I have said before i think they should have a weekly tv show on free tv with more minor fights and then 6 majpr ppv's per year with stacked cards and at least one title fight.

PRIDE used to average around 8 fights a year. Almost every card was stacked. Most featured a least one championship bouts or a tournament style GP with multiple action packed fights. The anticipation for each card was a major key to its success.
So yes I completely agree with you. What you're suggesting isn't that dissimilar to PRIDE bar the free TV fights.

[dillinja]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

PRIDE used to average around 8 fights a year. Almost every card was stacked. Most featured a least one championship bouts or a tournament style GP with multiple action packed fights. The anticipation for each card was a major key to its success.
So yes I completely agree with you. What you're suggesting isn't that dissimilar to PRIDE bar the free TV fights.

The reason for the free tv weekly card is to keep casual fans interest and build the sport, also with the new weight classes it opens up alot of potential fights.

[boranbkk]

I don't now if the UFC has problems or not & I don't really know too much about Dana White, but what seems clear to me is there is a massive disconnect between the expectations of the kind of fans that go to UFC shows the development of the sport.

As the article alludes to, only a "slug fest" will satisfy. This is the UFC's biggest problem IMHO. It built its name and rep on muscle bound mutants dishing out brutal poundings and vicious KOs. In its early days This was possible due to MMA and the UFC being fledgling concepts both developing hand in hand but very much in the public eye. Developmental rules and many mismatches due to a lack of depth in ranks of complete MMA fighters at the time.

However this has all changed, the sport has developed into a very professional force to be reckoned with which has a large international mainstream audience and a fresh generation of professional athletes that take the sport and their careers very seriously. Fitter & more skilled technical fighters who train from early in their careers for only MMA, specialists in not one art but masters at putting it all together, who don't gas halfway through the first round.

More fighters with better skills and conditioning equal better matchmaking which translates as more competitive & skilled fights. This is where the problem lies. What's ulitmately good for the sport long term is not nessasarily good for the alchohoal fueled morons that hoot and holler like retarded children every time a camera comes their way. The morons who buy the tickets want overweight badly conditioned brawlers in huge dangerous mismatches, where as the hardcore, fans and fighters want more fights like last nights flyweight battle. That's the gap that needs to be bridged, or maybe it doesn't. Stick with quality and steering the UFC and MMA down a more skilled proffesional route and you may lose some fans on the short term, but if they can't appreciate a good Flyweight bout who needs em.

I know Dana has an ego bigger than Overreem's guns, but I'd be pissed to under the current circumstances having the best fight on my card booed.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

I don't now if the UFC has problems or not & I don't really know too much about Dana White, but what seems clear to me is there is a massive disconnect between the expectations of the kind of fans that go to UFC shows the development of the sport.

As the article alludes to, only a "slug fest" will satisfy. This is the UFC's biggest problem IMHO. It built its name and rep on muscle bound mutants dishing out brutal poundings and vicious KOs. In its early days This was possible due to MMA and the UFC being fledgling concepts both developing hand in hand but very much in the public eye. Developmental rules and many mismatches due to a lack of depth in ranks of complete MMA fighters at the time.

However this has all changed, the sport has developed into a very professional force to be reckoned with which has a large international mainstream audience and a fresh generation of professional athletes that take the sport and their careers very seriously. Fitter & more skilled technical fighters who train from early in their careers for only MMA, specialists in not one art but masters at putting it all together.

More fighters with better skills and conditioning equal better matchmaking which translates as more competitive & skilled fights. This is where the problem lies. What's ulitmately good for the sport long term is not nessasarily good for the alchohoal fueled morons that hoot and holler like retarded children every time a camera comes their way. The morons who buy the tickets want overweight badly conditioned brawlers in huge mismatches where as the hardcore, fans and fighters want more fights like last nights flyweight battle. That's the gap that needs to be bridged, or maybe it doesn't. Stick with quality and steering the UFC and MMA down a moe skilled proffefiobal and you may lose done fans on the short term, but if they can't appetite a good Flyweight bout who needs em.

I know Dana has an ego bigger than Overreem's guns, but I'd be pissed to under the current circumstances.

Problem is this is pretty much how UFC fans have always been. If you compare them to Asian fans there's really not much of a comparison. The UFC has purposefully catered for the beer swilling neanderthal casual fan. Remember the immortal "Just Bleed" fan? Dana did nothing to influence nor change the demographic appeal of 'his' fans. If anything he encouraged this with his own brash cad like behavior.
Its almost impossible to retrospectively fit or change that just because the UFC is now the last man standing, more prevalent - and thus under scrutiny, or expect a greater deal of professionalism from the fans when Dana is the exact antithesis of professionalism.
The fans boo'ed primarily because many casual fans don't want to see a flyweight bout as a co-main. Its hard enough to sell that in boxing much less in MMA. Likewise the casual grunt that watches the UFC is barely even smart enough to know the difference between a RnC and a Kimura.
As i said already this isn't PRIDE where the fans had a HUGE amount of adoration for the fighters and bouts in some cases resembled tennis matches because of the silence. Most of these casual fans hardly understand the ground game, the subtle nuances of MMA how its evolved or for that matter respect the fighters. Notice the boo's as Jones came out? The blame for that can only lay at Dana's door. He went from being the Golden Boy to a Pariah in just one rant from that megalomaniac.
The UFC is its own worst enemy with a guy like Dana at the helm. The fans are just a reflection of him. Now he wants to berate the fans with such a ridiculous statement because of a number of crap cards this year?
MMA has changed. The UFC has not. And neither will its fans. The UFC are solely to blame for that.

[Stoo]

Canadians

[Ne5ville14]

Shitty audience !

[Stoo]

After his fourth successful UFC light heavyweight title defence Saturday evening, fans were eager to hear who would challenge Jon "Bones" Jones next.

UFC president Dana White, at the UFC 152 post-fight presser, said don't be surprised if Jones takes on Chael Sonnen in 2013. MMA Junkie has the scoop:

I can tell you right now, I think they both want that fight," White told a small group of reporters following the UFC 152 news conference. "I think there are other fights that make more sense. (But) people do want to see it. If enough people want to see it, I guess I'd have to make it.

Sonnen vs. Jones looked like it would come to fruition after Dan Henderson withdrew from UFC 151 just eight days before the event, due to a knee injury.

However, after discussing it over with his head trainer Greg Jackson, the titleholder decided it didn't make sense to fight "The American Gangster" on such short notice and declined the fight.

Jones indicated that he didn't want to give Sonnen "the opportunity of a lifetime" since he did not believe that the two-time middleweight title challenger was deserving of another crack at UFC gold.

The former two-time All-American collegiate wrestler is set to take on a former UFC light heavyweight champion, Forrest Griffin, at UFC 155, scheduled for Dec. 29 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

If Sonnen wins, White already knows what to expect from the outspoken veteran. "He's going to call out Jon Jones, no doubt, (if he beats Griffin)," White said.

White also commended the Team Quest standout for his warrior spirit.

"Everybody talks about him talking his way into fights," White said. "But you know that guy's showing up to fight and win. That's why I don't really have reservations about it. When I called Jon and I thought he was going to take that fight – Chael will fight anybody. That's one of the things I respect about him."

Jones will likely be on the shelf for several months after enduring a deep armbar in the first round of his UFC 152 bout against Vitor Belfort.

While Jones dominated the bout as a whole, Belfort came close early with an armbar from his guard, to the point where the champion admitted he may have suffered nerve damage to his bicep.

Heading into the bout with Griffin, Sonnen is just 2-2 in his last four fights, with both losses coming at the hands of his hated rival, UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva.

Would a win over Griffin be enough to set up a grudge match between Sonnen and Jones, or does Chael still have a long ladder to climb before he gets another title shot?

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Canadians

How things have changed....

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

Problem is this is pretty much how UFC fans have always been. If you compare them to Asian fans there's really not much of a comparison. The UFC has purposefully catered for the beer swilling neanderthal casual fan. Remember the immortal "Just Bleed" fan? Dana did nothing to influence nor change the demographic appeal of 'his' fans. If anything he encouraged this with his own brash cad like behavior.
Its almost impossible to retrospectively fit or change that just because the UFC is now the last man standing, more prevalent - and thus under scrutiny, or expect a greater deal of professionalism from the fans when Dana is the exact antithesis of professionalism.
The fans boo'ed primarily because many casual fans don't want to see a flyweight bout as a co-main. Its hard enough to sell that in boxing much less in MMA. Likewise the casual grunt that watches the UFC is barely eHuven smart enough to know the difference between a RnC and a Kimura.
As i said already this isn't PRIDE where the fans had a HUGE amount of adoration for the fighters and bouts in some cases resembled tennis matches because of the silence. Most of these casual fans hardly understand the ground game, the subtle nuances of MMA how its evolved or for that matter respect the fighters. Notice the boo's as Jones came out? The blame for that can only lay at Dana's door. He went from being the Golden Boy to a Pariah in just one rant from that megalomaniac.
The UFC is its own worst enemy with a guy like Dana at the helm. The fans are just a reflection of him. Now he wants to berate the fans with such a ridiculous statement because of a number of crap cards this year?
MMA has changed. The UFC has not. And neither will its fans. The UFC are solely to blame for that.

So, the guys created a monster devouring everything in its wake. I don't really know much about it all Scurla, but I'll take your word for it.

However, despite himself he may have had a rare moment of clarity with this introduction if a flyweight belt. It opens the UFC up to Asia that little bit more and hence a slightly more clued up fan & more exposure for the brand. Not to mention hoards and hoards of tough hungry little guys that have something to prove on a big international stage.

Due to the quality attirude of the fighters and the sports grassroots popularity the sport and his organisation may just develop in the right direction inspite of Mr White doing his best to sink it. Maybe the UFC is bigger than one mouthy oafish egomaniac.

[Thom]

He shouldn't have said it, and this yet another example of why he's an unprofessional buffoon who should be muzzled by the Fertittas. However, I agree with the sentiment. The boos in the crowd and the online reaction to the Flyweight title fight were ridiculous. That was an entertaining fight. On some of the MMA websites, people were acting like we saw a five round replay of Starnes/Quarry. I also don't get the hostility that MMA fans have for the smaller guys. Flyweight division in the unified rules is roughly equivalent to Featherweight in boxing. There are a long of Featherweights who are revered and considered to be warrior by boxing fans. I guess that it just comes down to the fact that most of the casual fans in North America are "just bleed" types.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by Thom

He shouldn't have said it, and this yet another example of why he's an unprofessional buffoon who should be muzzled by the Fertittas. However, I agree with the sentiment. The boos in the crowd and the online reaction to the Flyweight title fight were ridiculous. That was an entertaining fight. On some of the MMA websites, people were acting like we saw a five round replay of Starnes/Quarry. I also don't get the hostility that MMA fans have for the smaller guys. Flyweight division in the unified rules is roughly equivalent to Featherweight in boxing. There are a long of Featherweights who are revered and considered to be warrior by boxing fans. I guess that it just comes down to the fact that most of the casual fans in North America are "just bleed" types.

This is where orgs like the WEC were invaluable in Western MMA. The West as you know is not Japan. Matter fact even going back into PRIDEs history the Org was built on bigger guys and originally only had a heavy division of which it added Middle and Welter later on. The UFC was the same. Only a few years ago they didn't have a Lightweight division. They've only decided to test the waters with the lower divisions because they're roster was thinning on known talent, they wanted to wind down the WEC, and in order to profit more from their cards it made more financial sense to add the lower weights.
BUT its still hard to sell a flyweight bout as a co-main. This is MMA not boxing. Boxing barely gets away with that. With the type of casual fans the UFC has that was never going to do down well. But the UFC is to solely to blame for the fickle nature of its fans. The Western fan base is just a totally different gravy. So this behavior is to be expected. Dana can't complain as his done nothing to change this and if anything has encouraged it.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

So, the guys created a monster devouring everything in its wake. I don't really know much about it all Scurla, but I'll take your word for it.

However, despite himself he may have had a rare moment of clarity with this introduction if a flyweight belt. It opens the UFC up to Asia that little bit more and hence a slightly more clued up fan & more exposure for the brand. Not to mention hoards and hoards of tough hungry little guys that have something to prove on a big international stage.

Due to the quality attirude of the fighters and the sports grassroots popularity the sport and his organisation may just develop in the right direction inspite of Mr White doing his best to sink it. Maybe the UFC is bigger than one mouthy oafish egomaniac.

I'm not sure it does. Asia historically has never cared much for the UFC product and the fan base is entirely different to the West.
If the UFC had been sensible they'd have honored their word and kept PRIDE which could have been the face of the UFC in Asia. But economically Zuffa complained it was a box of rocks (which in my opinion was bullshit as they should have done their due diligence), rather than scatter the Org and its fighters to the four winds.
The UFC has been through tough times before long before Dana was on the scene. But the problem is the UFC now represents the face of MMA practically the world over. Dana's had a good run. Its time for him to go now and put a more professional guy in charge.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

Although to be fair i just fast forwarded through most of it to the main event. I just can't watch a full UFC card anymore. I just don't get up for them like i used to.

Well, you're not a fan, scurla. You're a fanboy.

Anyway, do you "get up" for cricket games like you used to? Do you get up in the middle of the night to watch the West Indies, or anticipate them touring weeks in advance? Of course you don't, because a) your favourite team is now usually getting beaten instead of being the kings, and b) you're older and more jaded in general. You don't get as excited for music, movies or any other form of entertainment either.

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

PRIDE used to average around 8 fights a year. Almost every card was stacked. Most featured a least one championship bouts or a tournament style GP with multiple action packed fights. The anticipation for each card was a major key to its success.
So yes I completely agree with you. What you're suggesting isn't that dissimilar to PRIDE bar the free TV fights.

PRIDE failed, scurla. It's gone, and has not been replaced. It failed because of its own failings, and the UFC had nothing to do with it failing. Why the hell would you constantly hold up PRIDE as the way to run an MMA organization?

I agree that there are certainly too many PPV cards and the UFC is making some missteps, but the solution isn't to try to turn the clock back and replicate a failed organization from another culture.

They need good fighters and young up and comers regularly on free TV. And to be fair to them, a lot of the free cards have been MORE stacked than the PPVs. You may complain about seeing Shogun, Machida, Vera, Bader and Lauzon on a free card, (and you did ), but I won't.