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Old 09-24-2012, 01:26 PM   #16
lora
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

fair enough

I'm frank btw
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

Whatever your supposed multiple sources are, they all seem to have problems spelling Colombia.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:44 PM   #18
Senor Pepe'
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

Flea Man,

Here is the 'understandable scenario' from Antionio Cervantes 'point-of-view'.

A) After defeating #1 WBA Light-Welterweight - Hector Thompson in November 1975
in Panama City, Antonio was left without a decent 'money' challenger.

B) There were 'no' big money fights out there, other than a bout with Roberto Duran.

C) Antonio despite 5' 9", was not physically big enough to move up in weight, and
challenge the 'top-flight' Welterweights, and he had no desire to do so.

D) At an advanced at age of 30 (though many have said he was closer to 35), Antonio
was getting worn down, despite 'two' impressive performances in 1975.

E) Age and injuries were beginning to take their their toll on his body.

F) His last '5' fights were located in Panama, Venezuela and Japan, so he could better
fight purses. His last bout in his native Colombia was back in July 1974.

G) WBA Welterweight Champion - Angel Espada (Puerto Rico) who was co-managed
by Gregorio Benetiz, and had no desire to leave Puerto Rico at the time in early-1976.
Antonio would have to go up in weight, and travel to Puerto Rico if he wanted that
bout, and without a large fight purse.

H) WBC Welterweight Champion - John H. Stracey was not leaving the United Kingdom,
and there was no big money floating around to get Antonio to come over for a challenge.

I) New WBC Light-Welterweight Champion - Saensak Muangsurin had no name recognition
outside of Thailand, and was locked-up with a Filipino promoter.

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 09-25-2012 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:46 PM   #19
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

I dont care what klompton said. I dont buy that Benitez couldnt make weight or that Cervantes threw the fight.

Exactly, Benitez was a kid at the time. I wrestled in High School at the same age as Benitez was here and I can tell you its a heck of a lot easier to take of 5 or 10 pounds at that age than it is in your late twenties. I knew kids who routinely cut weigh from the 120s to wrestle at 103.

Besides, the fights you mention were fought at catch weights, meaning Benitez could come in at what was comfortable to him. They were designed as such.

When he had to make weight he could. Three and a half years later with only a couple of weeks training he weighed 144 against Leonard.

How can anyone even take Pepe seriously after hes been caught fabricating his stories several times now?

If you are going to continue to post all of these conspiracy theories show us some cold hard facts or just admit its all supposition on your part, not that you have to since you continually get proven out before long.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:47 PM   #20
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Flea Man,

Here is the 'understandable scenario' from Antionio Cervantes 'point-of-view'.

A) After defeating #1 WBA Light-Welterweight - Hector Thompson in November 1975
in Panama City, Antonio was left without a decent 'money' challenger.

B) There were 'no' big money fights out there, other than a bout with Roberto Duran.

C) Antonio despite 5' 9", was not physically big enough to move up in weight, and
challenge the 'top-flight' Welterweights, and he had no desire to do so.

D) At an advanced at age of 30 (though many have said he was closer to 35), Antonio
was getting worn down, despite 'two' impressive performances in 1975.

E) Age and injuries were beginning to take their their toll on his body.

F) His last '5' fights were located in Panama, Venezuela and Japan, so he could better
fight purses. His last bout in his native Colombia was back in July 1974.

G) WBA Welterweight Champion - Angel Espada (Puerto Rico) who was co-managed
by Gregorio Benetiz, and had no desire to leave Puerto Rico at the time in early-1976.
Antonio would have to go up in weight, and travel to Puerto Rico if he wanted that
bout, and without a large fight purse.

H) WBC Welterweight Champion - John H. Starcey was not leaving the United Kingdom,
and there was no big money floating around to get Antonio to come over for a challenge.

I) New WBC Light-Welterweight Champion - Saensak Muangsurin had no name recognition
outside of Thailand, and was locked-up with a Filipino promoter.

And yet he fought on for several more years...
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:40 AM   #21
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

I'm not sure making 144, which he he said was his absolute limit (Curry) means that he definitely could've made 140.

I know about weight cutting. Doesn't mean that it applies here. Doesn't mean that Benitez wasn't already crushing himself to make 144 or so.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:16 AM   #22
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Tywin View Post
And yet he fought on for several more years...
Yes, he did.

But in February 1976, he had all intentions of retiring after one or two
more bouts.

As per Ramiro Machado, after the failure to secure a bout with Roberto Duran
for early-1976 (big money fight), Antonio wanted to retire in 1976.

What he did after his 'February 1976 statement', was a later decision.

Of course, you continue to a have a problem with comprehension....
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:31 AM   #23
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

You have a failure to comprehend reality and compensate for it by making up details as you go along.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:40 AM   #24
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

February 1976

With negotiations for a 'future' 1976 bout with WBA Lightweight Champion - Roberto Duran..........'gone up in smoke'

And with no 'big money fights' left in Southeast Asia, Central America, the Caribbean or Venezuela - Antonio Cervantes
and Ramiro Machado are offered up a 'deal' in Puerto Rico, by Gregorio Benetiz.

Gregorio Benetiz and his 'backers' offer Ramiro Machado (Kid Pambele's Manager) $200,000 to come to Puerto Rico
in March, to defend his WBA Light-Welterweight Championship versus his 17 1/2 year-old son - Wilfred Benetiz.

The 30 year-old - Antonio Cervantes, who will be set as a 4-1 Betting-Favorite to defeat this relative unknown
teenager (outside of Puerto Rico and The Bronx, New York). Ramiro Machado will then quietly 'bet' on the Puerto Rican
'teenager' to 'upset' his fighter, reaping the Manager Machado and his Colombian Champion Cervantes additional 'dinero'.

But it doesn't end there. As part of the agreement to 'dumping' the WBA Light-Welterweight Championship
to Wilfred Benetiz in Puerto Rico in March 1976, Wilfred 'must' make his 'first defense' versus Ramiro Machado's
other fighter, Colombian Light-Welterweight Champion - Emiliano Villa - within 90-days.

That bout will be held in Puerto Rico also, and Emiliano Villa is to receive a 'lucrative' fight purse as well.

All agreements are 'approved' by the WBA Chairman - Dr. Elias Cordova and the WBA Championship Committee. (?)

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 09-25-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Tywin View Post
You have a failure to comprehend reality and compensate for it by making up details as you go along.
He rejects your reality and substitutes his own.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:11 PM   #26
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

The Wanderer,

Sir Lord can criticize, but he does not post 'one fact', just criticisms. Pretty pathetic, don't you think.

As of September 12, 1975

On Wilfred Benetiz' 17th birthday.

Wilfred was 23-0-0 (19 KO's), and not ranked anywhere in the WBA Rankings.

Fact, Wilfred had been fighting in the Welterweight Divsion (over 140 lbs.) for his
last 17 bouts.

The last time Wilfred made 140 lbs., was in his '6th professional bout', way back
on April 1, 1974 (18 months previously).

During his span of '23' wins, he did not face one ranked fighter, and not one
'fringe contender'.

And his last '4-bouts' were all scheduled 8-Rounders, fought at 147 lbs., at locations
in Puerto Rico and St. Maarten.

How do I know this...............I worked for the World Boxing Association.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:20 PM   #27
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
The Wanderer,

Sir Lord can criticize, but he does not post 'one fact', just criticisms. Pretty pathetic, don't you think.

As of September 12, 1975

On Wilfred Benetiz' 17th birthday.

Wilfred was 23-0-0 (19 KO's), and not ranked anywhere in the WBA Rankings.

Fact, Wilfred had been fighting in the Welterweight Divsion (over 140 lbs.) for his
last 17 bouts.

The last time Wilfred made 140 lbs., was in his '6th professional bout', way back
on April 1, 1974 (18 months previously).

During his span of '23' wins, he did not face one ranked fighter, and not one
'fringe contender'.

And his last '4-bouts' were all scheduled 8-Rounders, fought at 147 lbs., at locations
in Puerto Rico and St. Maarten.

How do I know this...............I worked for the World Boxing Association.
...and now you can go back to making it up as you go along.

Here are some actual facts, not made up ones:

Cervantes took what he considered a gimme against a 17 year old fighter who had never fought a ranked Junior Welterweight as a stay busy fight, he came in over confident and unprepared for a guy who was a phenom even at that age and was outboxed.

That sounds a lot more like what happened than "Cervantes chose Benitez so he could lose to him and retire, and was robbed by the judges, and Benitez didnt even make weight.

At least choose one excuse and stick to it.

If you really want to believe that Benitez fighting at a comfort weight while he was still essentially a novice and not hunting for any particular belt means something nefarious then so be it but I would expect someone who "worked for the WBA..." to know better.

Then again, given some of the WBA's choices, then as now, maybe it shouldnt surprise me.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

pepe posts some great stuff, great read. cervantes was just about how good of a fighter you can be without becoming great imo, i loved his fight with pryor, would love to see him locche I and II fights also.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:30 PM   #29
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke View Post
pepe posts some great stuff, great read. cervantes was just about how good of a fighter you can be without becoming great imo, i loved his fight with pryor, would love to see him locche I and II fights also.
Thanks Luke,

Unfortunately - Sir Lord follows 'all' my threads, and then criticizes, but
does not offer any factual information, just his wide eyed belief that
he is right, and everyone else is not.

I have not completed the full information on the outcome.

That will be on the next post.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: Antonio Cervantes 'Went in the Tank versus Wilfred Benetiz'

Cervantes destroyed the De Jesus who hung in with Duran.

Duran kinda jumped over Jr. WW that had Cervantes, Benitez, and a young Pryor out there.
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