Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

[Hookie]

Prime vs. Prime?

[Hookie]

Liston's taller, heavier, and has a longer reach.

Marciano always had the shorter reach. His plan vs. Liston would not be to outjab him...duh... he's gonna come forward, slip some punches and take the others, get close, get inside, and work the body, head, shoulders, arm, elbows, wrists, neck, hips... anything he can hit... and hit it hard.

[yancey]

Originally Posted by Hookie

Prime vs. Prime?

Liston by devastating KO.

[SJS19]

Marciano wins. Entire fight takes place on the inside where Rocky breaks Liston down. Don't see Sonny having the feet to win this one.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Originally Posted by SJS19

Marciano wins. Entire fight takes place on the inside where Rocky breaks Liston down. Don't see Sonny having the feet to win this one.

I like this post.
I wouldn´t bet any money on this fight though.....

[frankwornank]

Most people when they think of Marciano think about his punching power and endurance and they are right about that. However, what stood out was something you couldn't directly see and that what his strong mind. He simply would not be deterred. People will say, "but Liston was bigger and heavier etc." but Liston was not as physically and mentally strong as Marciano. He wasn't as tough as Marciano. He did not punch as hard as Marciano. Marciano would break Liston down and KO him in about 8 rounds. To me, Liston proved he could be discouraged. He did that in both Ali fights. The kind of pressure Marciano would put on Liston would cause Liston to fold.

[RockyJim]

You'd have to kill Marciano in order to beat him....the pounding at the hands of Walcott...the nose being split open to the bone against Charles in the second fight...his will to win...his determination...and...The Rock was mentally tough...Ali got into Liston's head in 1964...and as champion...Liston QUIT while sitting on his stool...Marciano out-guts Sonny and wins this...not an easy fight...Marciano prevails...

[Hookie]

Originally Posted by yancey

Liston by devastating KO.

Why? How?

Marciano was only down twice. A perfect left hook from Walcott... Marciano broke him down and stopped him in the 13th. He stopped him in the 1st in their rematch. Moore dropped him as well... he dropped Moore 5 times and stopped him in the 9th. He never lost, therefore he was never stopped. Walcott and Moore punched harder then Ali and Martin.

On the other hand... Liston got his jaw broke by Marty Marshall and lost by decision. He was down and out vs. Ali (rematch) and Martin. He was also stopped by Ali in their first fight. Yeah, yeah, Ali didn't have liston out but he did drop him clean despite what many people say.

Marciano went 6-0 (5) vs. Hall of Famers Louis, Walcott x2, Charles x2, and Moore. Liston beat 1 Hall of Famer... Patterson x2.

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by RockyJim

You'd have to kill Marciano in order to beat him....the pounding at the hands of Walcott...the nose being split open to the bone against Charles in the second fight...his will to win...his determination...and...The Rock was mentally tough...Ali got into Liston's head in 1964...and as champion...Liston QUIT while sitting on his stool...Marciano out-guts Sonny and wins this...not an easy fight...Marciano prevails...

Ali was also 6'3, 200+ pounds, FAST, AGILE, and used Psychological Warfare against Sonny.

Rocky is a different fighter than Ali. Rocky comes to you and can be hit. And he doesn't try to get inside your head with words before and during the fight like Ali did.

The fighter that can avoid your attacks and hit you in return, is more troubling to the mind. That's why I like to bring up that Tyson video explaining why he was so devastating Psychologically in his prime.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPAIFzsyqXo[/ame]

You also have to factor in the possibility that Sonny just wasn't as hungry anymore when he faced Ali.



On a side note, I was watching an Amateur video of Sonny the other day and it's amazing the length of this guy's arms were

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN4sp2ICAh8[/ame]



Sonny was quite the "Boxer" and not just some brawler either.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwUYR0n6eDA&hd=1[/ame]

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by Hookie

Why? How?

Marciano was only down twice. A perfect left hook from Walcott... Marciano broke him down and stopped him in the 13th. He stopped him in the 1st in their rematch. Moore dropped him as well... he dropped Moore 5 times and stopped him in the 9th. He never lost, therefore he was never stopped. Walcott and Moore punched harder then Ali and Martin.

On the other hand... Liston got his jaw broke by Marty Marshall and lost by decision. He was down and out vs. Ali (rematch) and Martin. He was also stopped by Ali in their first fight. Yeah, yeah, Ali didn't have liston out but he did drop him clean despite what many people say.

Marciano went 6-0 (5) vs. Hall of Famers Louis, Walcott x2, Charles x2, and Moore. Liston beat 1 Hall of Famer... Patterson x2.

He got his jaw broke because he got caught with his mouth open. You don't have to be a power puncher to break someone's jaw in this manner.
By the way, did he quit in that fight or did he fight through it?

[BillB]

Originally Posted by Hookie

Why? How?

Marciano was only down twice. A perfect left hook from Walcott... Marciano broke him down and stopped him in the 13th. He stopped him in the 1st in their rematch. Moore dropped him as well... he dropped Moore 5 times and stopped him in the 9th. He never lost, therefore he was never stopped. Walcott and Moore punched harder then Ali and Martin.

On the other hand... Liston got his jaw broke by Marty Marshall and lost by decision. He was down and out vs. Ali (rematch) and Martin. He was also stopped by Ali in their first fight. Yeah, yeah, Ali didn't have liston out but he did drop him clean despite what many people say.

Marciano went 6-0 (5) vs. Hall of Famers Louis, Walcott x2, Charles x2, and Moore. Liston beat 1 Hall of Famer... Patterson x2.

Marciano never fought anyone like Liston. He was never hit by anyone like Liston.

Don't be fooled by Ali's knockdown of Liston. It wasn't real. Yeah, there was a punch, but it was not a punch that would have decked Sonny Liston.
Cleveland Williams could hit like a bull. Liston took his stuff without blinking. He damn sure wasn't going to be knocked down by the punch Ali threw.


I don't know who would have won this fight. I think it could go either way.
I tend to think Liston would win it. Marciano took too many punches to land one of his own. He couldn't fight Liston this way and win.

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by BillB

Marciano never fought anyone like Liston. He was never hit by anyone like Liston.

Don't be fooled by Ali's knockdown of Liston. It wasn't real. Yeah, there was a punch, but it was not a punch that would have decked Sonny Liston.
Cleveland Williams could hit like a bull. Liston took his stuff without blinking. He damn sure wasn't going to be knocked down by the punch Ali threw.


I don't know who would have won this fight. I think it could go either way.
I tend to think Liston would win it. Marciano took too many punches to land one of his own. He couldn't fight Liston this way and win.

I don't know what the deal was in the second fight with Ali but some would say you have to factor in the possibility that Liston didn't see the punch coming because of the speed and angle it was thrown/placed and the punch you don't see, is the punch that does the most damage.

Now if that was the case...I don't know. Shady times and it had most people scratching their head.


But I agree; Rocky didn't face someone with the overall size and skill of Liston. And Liston would be his toughest challenge.




Good Fight.

[MRBILL]

Hate to break the hearts of the Marciano nut-huggers, but Liston was very big compared to Marciano and had the skills and power to break Marciano down... Liston of 1959 to 1962 is all wrong for 1951, '52 or '53 Marciano via a time machine....

Had Marciano hung on after 1956, Liston would've prolly KO'd Marciano for real by 1958....

A bad match for Marciano...

SR.BILL

[yancey]

Originally Posted by MRBILL

Hate the break the hearts of the Marciano nut-huggers, but Liston was very big compared to Marciano and had the skills and power to break Marciano down... Liston of 1959 to 1962 is all wrong for 1951, '52 or '53 Marciano via a time machine....

Had Marciano hung on after 1956, Liston would've prolly KO'd Marciano for real by 1958....

A bad match for Marciano...

SR.BILL

You've got this one exactly right.

Sonny is too much for Rocky.

[Hookie]

Originally Posted by Caelum

He got his jaw broke because he got caught with his mouth open. You don't have to be a power puncher to break someone's jaw in this manner.
By the way, did he quit in that fight or did he fight through it?

No, he didn't quit vs. the 180 Lber... I'll give him credit where it is due. Sure, Rocky didn't weigh much more but he was a hell of a lot better than Marshall in every way possible.