Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by Hookie

No, he didn't quit vs. the 180 Lber... I'll give him credit where it is due. Sure, Rocky didn't weigh much more but he was a hell of a lot better than Marshall in every way possible.

At what stage of his career was this?

Once your jaw is broken, it's hard to win let alone continue to fight. Maybe even harder when it is in the early point of your career given your lack experience.

Ali had trouble with Doug Jones, knocked on his ass by Sonny Banks and Cooper. It happens.

Rocky had a controversial decision against 175+ pound Ted Lowry in their first bout. And I've read he had Rocky hurt badly in that fight.

Rocky Marciano: The Rock of His Time {page 41}..."It was Lowry, not Marciano, who was on the verge of scoring an early knockout, stinging Marciano with two terrific rights in the first round and then rocking him with two mighty uppercuts in the second. By the fourth round, a staggered Marciano seemed only one punch away from being knocked out. But then, inexplicably, Lowry stopped fighting and retreated into a shell despite repeated warnings from the referee to open up and a cascade of boos from the crows. To many, it appeared, that Lowry was deliberately carrying Marciano. Was foul play afoot? Was Lowry getting paid to lose? Or was he merely tiring?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

IT HAPPENS. IT'S BOXING.


Did Walcott suffer any bumps in the road?
How about Others?

Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey certainly did...as well as others in the HOF.

It Happens...specifically early on.
__

[Theron]

Marciano just dosen't have the style to beat Liston i'd say they both have great chins but Listons was better. Liston was a great boxer/puncher Rocky was just a puncher,

-When Rocky came in close and got passed Listons ATG jab he would get uppercuts and get Liston leaning his heavier weight advantage on him.
-I don't know who hit harder, but Rocky would be taking the bigger shots, remember althought Liston was 6'1 and a half he had an 84'' inch reach to Rocky's 67'' inch reach.
-I really cannot see anyway for rocky to win,
-Can't jab him
-Can't outbox him
-Both were great punchers
-Rocky had shorter reach height and lower weight
Definatley would be a great match to watch though because Rocky wouldn't give up and keep coming in. But that would be the same thing that would get him beat

[Theron]

''Styles make fights and Rocky just dosen't have the style to beat Liston.

[MRBILL]

Originally Posted by Theron

''Styles make fights and Rocky just dosen't have the style to beat Liston.

Thank you... Your eye-sight is 20/20....

MR.BILL

[SuzieQ49]

Sonny would not knockout Marciano, but he would decision him.


Liston unanimous decision

[choklab]

Originally Posted by MRBILL

Hate to break the hearts of the Marciano nut-huggers, but Liston was very big compared to Marciano and had the skills and power to break Marciano down... Liston of 1959 to 1962 is all wrong for 1951, '52 or '53 Marciano via a time machine....

Had Marciano hung on after 1956, Liston would've prolly KO'd Marciano for real by 1958....

A bad match for Marciano...

SR.BILL

Liston could take a punch but he fought a lot of frozen fighters who were already psyched out. I noticed in fights of his that often a punch would register and cause pause for thought. ali and whitehurst for example bothered sonny at times with single shots. patterson was a good puncher but he never got the chance to hit Liston. williams stung Liston but did not hit as hard as marciano according to kenne simmons who fought both.

Marciano was horrible to fight and more experienced than Liston. Sonny would be a hard opponent for Marciano too but it works both ways if both are prime. Once they both start swapping punches I think Marciano would win the exchanges, he was harder to hit with consecutive punches and also had a better chin.
marciano was over 190 when he turned pro but came down to be as fit as he could, he still bumped up to 192 as late as 1951. He was killing himself to be as light as he could. Liston was 198lb and raw boned in his first year as a pro then grew another 12 or so pounds. The point I am making is both started out within pounds of each other. one decided to train to develop more power, the other decide to train to develop more stamina.
Both were 1950s fighters beating on simular sized men.Marciano successful with disadvantages in size against better opponents and Liston was successful with advantages in size against lesser opponents. would you say the smaller guy who beats better fighters is a certainty to lose to the bigger guy who beats up lesser guys smaller than he, not all of whom came to fight?

[choklab]

Originally Posted by Theron

Marciano just dosen't have the style to beat Liston i'd say they both have great chins but Listons was better. Liston was a great boxer/puncher Rocky was just a puncher,

-When Rocky came in close and got passed Listons ATG jab he would get uppercuts and get Liston leaning his heavier weight advantage on him.
-I don't know who hit harder, but Rocky would be taking the bigger shots, remember althought Liston was 6'1 and a half he had an 84'' inch reach to Rocky's 67'' inch reach.
-I really cannot see anyway for rocky to win,
-Can't jab him
-Can't outbox him
-Both were great punchers
-Rocky had shorter reach height and lower weight
Definatley would be a great match to watch though because Rocky wouldn't give up and keep coming in. But that would be the same thing that would get him beat

Rocky was not unbeatable, you just had to be as tough as he was, control the distance and second guess his move. Liston was not that guy. Sure sonny had a killer jab, shortened the hook and was devastating against a sitting duck but marciano was there to work off you and not do what you were ready for.
Liiston was always about putting the hurt on. He was not going to change. sonny's not going the strategic route, playing it safe. he knocks a guys head up with a jab and he’s coming in with the right on instinct. A tough seasoned guy (like rocky was in his championship years) would be ready to give and take. marciano and top champions don’t take it full force on the way in.

rocky fought off the other mans leads, he would want jabs to come at him, always ready. Marciano had no rhythm but that made him deadly because there was no pattern to follow. You moved in to reach him then he hit you. Liston would come in but struggle to find room inside then get hit back. A lot.
bombs would be coming both ways, something Liston was not used to.

[lufcrazy]

Rocky is a great talent pound for pound. Probably better than Liston in that regard.

However I don't see him outjabbing Liston so he has to get inside and once there can he really be expected to successfully trade punches with a a man 20 pounds heavier? I say no.

I'm not sure Liston stops Rocky, but I can't see Rocky winning enough rounds.

In a finish fight I think Rocky's resolve would pay off and see him victorious but given a limit of 15 rounds I have to favour Sonny.

[bladerunner]

Marciano had a tendency to get wild and leave himself open.. this could be disastrous against a huge puncher like Sonny that could make Marciano darely for such mistakes. Marciano will be walking straight towards a man who is bigger, stronger, taller and thus having a leverage advantage on the inside. Liston had huge reach and a sledgehammer jab that could make things most difficult for Marciano when trying to work his way inside.

Rocky had huge stamina and a heart to match. He wouldn't be easy to hit, although i think the notion that he would wade straight under Listons straight punches without incurring any damage is ridiculous. This would be a slugfest, who would win? Im so unsure im not going to vote.

[Stevie G]

Liston hurts Marciano early and Rocky never quite recovers and the kayo arrives by the fifth. Rocky's superior attributes such as stamina don't get a chance to come into play.

[choklab]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

Marciano had a tendency to get wild and leave himself open.. this could be disastrous against a huge puncher like Sonny that could make Marciano darely for such mistakes. Marciano will be walking straight towards a man who is bigger, stronger, taller and thus having a leverage advantage on the inside. Liston had huge reach and a sledgehammer jab that could make things most difficult for Marciano when trying to work his way inside.

Liston is also facing someone who hits back. Marciano is not walking in wide open. Rocky was only wild finishing off a hurt, defenceless opponent otherwise rocky was awkward to hit and crab like. he lured people in. At close range I think Marciano has the edge. Liston becomes frustrated and finds his leverage and room to unload has been neutralised considerably.

Originally Posted by bladerunner

Rocky had huge stamina and a heart to match. He wouldn't be easy to hit, although i think the notion that he would wade straight under Listons straight punches without incurring any damage is ridiculous. This would be a slugfest, who would win? Im so unsure im not going to vote. .

This would be a close range slugfest. Liston was great at hurting people from long range with his lead blows and sweeping uppercuts but all those guys stood squarer in a more upright stance. Many were psyched out and already frozen with fear. Marciano was side on, almost crab like. Lead blows grazed him. Rocky fought better technicians with faster hands and slicker moves and nobody nailed him easily on the way in. Nobody landed without getting hit back either.

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Rocky is a great talent pound for pound. Probably better than Liston in that regard.
However I don't see him out jabbing Liston so he has to get inside and once there can he really be expected to successfully trade punches with a man 20 pounds heavier? I say no.

Rocky was 1 inch shorter, Liston was not up on his toes looking to keep anyone at bay. Sonny was a hunter, he came straight in and got going. I think Rocky meets Liston up close, climbs on him, frustrates sonny by outworking and smothering him inside.
Marciano doesn’t need to out jab Liston to beat him. He just needs to be better and more ready to fight than all the guys who bothered sonny - and he was!

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I'm not sure Liston stops Rocky, but I can't see Rocky winning enough rounds.
In a finish fight I think Rocky's resolve would pay off and see him victorious but given a limit of 15 rounds I have to favour Sonny.

This is quite a fair assessment but I think Liston wont be able to do what he wants to do against awkward Rocky. Liston was strong over 12 he never did do the 15 rounds though, frustration and experience would be a factor here. If Liston has doubts when the going gets tough Marciano will exploit it. You can be sure of that. Any fight with Marciano and the going will get tough.

[janwalshs]

Styles make fights. Marciano was made for Liston. Liston had way too big an advantage in reach and punched too hard. Marciano never gets past the jab and is destroyed bit by bit, round by round for a mid-fight stoppage.

All this stuff about how tough Marciano was, how strong he was, how he could never be stopped is crap. By that reasoning, he could never be stopped by a grizzly bear or gorilla either.

He wasn't a cyborg. He was human. He definitely could be hurt, cut and stopped by the right fighter. He was floored, cut and dazed many times in his career. The fighters who did the damage were either too small, too old or didn't punch hard enough to keep up a sustained attack.

Liston was outpsyched by Ali's mindgames but Rocky wasn't that kind of fighter so no psychological advantage for Rocky and certainly no physical advantage either.

An easy win for Liston.

[lufcrazy]

Liston wouldn't have it all his own way, ofcourse. But when these two fight they'll meet on the inside exchanging shots and I just see no way Rocky can get the better in exchanges with the bigger, heavier man.

The longer the rounds the more it favours Rocky though. That stat is true for him against anyone in my opinion aside from maybe Louis.

[PhillyPhan69]

I think Rocky is durable enough to absorb whatever Liston throws his way, and strong enough to earn his respect. I see Liston controling the first 3 rounds or so (although not dominating) possibly even scoring an early KD along the way. Rocky around rounds 4-5 closes the distance and turns this into an inside fight and begins to even the fight up and turning it into a war of attrition. Rocky begins to take control around rounds 7-8 and a weary Liston seeing his lead disappear goes all out to end it in the 9-10th rounds and gets caught wide open....Rocky by KO 9-10

[ChrisPontius]

Very hard to call this one, but I'm leaning towards Marciano by decision or late-round TKO.

Marciano's problem is that his record looks too good to be true. So, a lot of time is spent on taking it apart. The truth is, you can take anyone's record and make it look bad - even Ali's.

A lot of this match will take place on the inside. Here, Sonny's long arms would be a disadvantage compared to Marciano's T-rex paws. We know both hit like a truck and take a good shot. Rocky has more stamina and heart. Takes a beating and keeps on ticking.

It's a tough one, but I'm going with the wolf in sheep's clothes from the Greater Boston area.