Does anybody still believe Kung Fu is effective in a real fight?

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by bald_head_slick

Real Kung Fu is pretty brutal. I know a Ukranian cat who practices I think Wushu. It is a combination of religion/martial art. I would put my money on him against any sport trained fighter.

Now granted, there are sport guys who are just held back by rule sets. I would put my money on a prime Wanderlei Silva against anyone in a street fight.

Who you puttin your money on?

You puttin it on the Ukrainian wushu cat against the sports trained Wanderlei?

Or vice versa?


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[sugarngold]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

Bad example, the guys a hybrid of Taekwondo and Sanshou with a sprinkling of Muay Thai.

His spinning kicks by his own admission are Taekwondo and his round kicks and knees have been adapted to Muay Thai as most Karate, Taekwondo & Kung Fu guys who fight full contact have neen doing since early K-1 days.

He's no "pure" bastion of Kung Fu at all, he's a hybrid of striking styles, an MMA striker.

Name one fighter that's a pure bastion of any style in mma. Cung is the perfect example. Just because he's good don't try to discredit him or his style.

How about Lorenz Larkin?

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

I think we found the thread openers drinking buddies.

Its no joke, where he trained they would do push ups off their wrists and train the flexiblility in their wrist so they could get a clean hard blow with the wrist joint which is a preat big hard joint.

The punch with the wrist also gives you more room to throw hard shots in close quarters as you don't have your entire hand taking up space. The wrist is a lot tougher then your knuckles also.


All you have to do is train your flexiblility so you can flop you hand against the inside of your forarm. And do push ups off your wrists to strengthen the striking point of your wrist.

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by sugarngold

Name one fighter that's a pure bastion of any style in mma. Cung is the perfect example. Just because he's good don't try to discredit him or his style.

How about Lorenz Larkin?

FFS that's my point exactly! The thread opener was talking about Kung Fu guys on a classic sense & that's why I said Cung's a shite example for the thread!

And how the fuck did I "discredit him or his style"?

[Caestus]

If you are a Sanda or MT fighter with many more than just two weapons available why defend against hands like a boxer and handicap yourself. The lead knee counter is kryptonite to a boxer, it's quick, more powerful than a punch and the boxer doesn’t see it coming or know how to defend against it.

I'm not even saying that a boxer beats a modern Thai Boxer in his rules.That is your own discusion.And lol at the un-counterable and invencible kriptonite technique of the Knee, is like in Videogames, Hong Kong B movies and Superman comics, with unbeteable combos and techniques.
Is for that Rammon Dekkers drained thailand, and journeyman boxer Virgil Kalakoda draw two times with Buakaw, some can arge that beat him once.But hey, I was not discusing "the superiority of boxing" over you beloved muay thai.I only points that any martial in order to be truly efective needs to be mixed with boxing, wich is clearly proved and contrasted the most efective manner of punch somebody and evade get punched.It's an style developed gradually in real fights, and not a traditional martial art based in the autorithative figure of a Master founder, in contrast boxing always was open to evolve, as did Muay thai at some point of XX century when was stated as a form contac sport and had to adopt some boxing technique in order to give the prizefighter the most posibilities to the victory over the other prizefighter.

If anything, thailand is introducing more boxing than ever.And yes, muay thai as a combat sport introduced fastly western boxing and training methods in the 50's with the blend of western sailors.Because boxing is the best way to use and defend punches.You need some modifications in order to defend legkicks or to throw proper kicks yourself, but basically boxing is boxing, and there are diferent stances with diferent weight distribution in queensberry rules.Also, as I said, you dont see urakens, wing chun or muay boran technique punching like "hannuman ring" and all that TMA things.Muay Thai actually is a mixed combat sport.Gradually repalaced all the traditional punching technique with boxing, and also adopted the boxing ring, boxing gloves, rounds, referee, and boxing training methods.

Is what is it, stop hating.

Anyway, back to the original point, I responded to your comment “but in order to punch and defend punches, you need western boxing.” Which I still say is nonsense in a full striking context outside of the sport of boxing. I can’t speak for the other striking disciplines, but in terms of Muay Thai no self-respecting Muay Thai trainer or gym in the world is gonna tell you to defend punches in the manner of a western boxer and I doubt they would in Sanda either, you’d be annihilated.

Bullshit, even they are now paying cuban trainers to go to thailand to teach boxing to the nak muays.Then the fighter have to modify himself some things but that doesnt mean that is not boxing.Also in Sanda, like in modern muay thay, beside the spinning back fist ,you doesnt see any wing chun, mantis or any kung fu or traditional technique for punching or defend punches.

[Caestus]

I would put my money on a prime Wanderlei Silva against anyone in a street fight.

Rampage uppercut his balls like a speedbag if he thai-plumb him in the street.He don't eyegouges Wand because is not a girl but can also.

[196osh]

If you watch no rules MMA, it looks a lot like MMA with the normal rules but with more use of headbutts.

[boranbkk]

I swear this is the last Kung Fu related thread I’m ever getting involved in, it always ends in tears and I’m old enough to bloody well know better!

Originally Posted by Caestus

Is what is it, stop hating.

Hating? Who’s hating? This is a fight forum and if you say something people disagree with they’re gonna let you know about it.

I do realise I have the rather irritating and sometimes boring habit of pulling all striking conversations in the direction of Muay Thai, I admit I do see every combat experience through a Muay Thai prism but’s that’s only to be expected given my background of practical experience and years in Thailand. However, in the current thread regarding your original ignorant comment “in order to punch and defend punches, you need western boxing” I think my Muay Thai “prism” is valid.

In your last post we agree on one thing and it’s the main point of the tread: Classic Kung Fu is a waste of space in a full contact environment. Great……but the rest of it…….where do you get it form? I’ve heard nothing technical to back up any of your outrageous claims. I’m not saying I’m always right, but as most of the regulars in this forum will confirm I always try to back my arguments up with technical and practical reasoning and I suggest you do the same.

And lol at the un-counterable and invencible kriptonite technique of the Knee, is like in Videogames, Hong Kong B movies and Superman comics, with unbeteable combos and techniques.

I’ll leave the comic book and VDO game analogies to the armchair experts such as yourself, I tend to keep my analogies purely in the fight world.

Is for that Rammon Dekkers drained thailand

WTF! Diamond Dekkers a great trailblazing Muay Thai warrior and ATG no doubt (who I was lucky enough to meet in Lumpinee stadium in 2001), but he didn’t come to Thailand and demolish all the opposition, against Thais he lost more than he won, but he was brave & exciting, everything we love about fighters.

journeyman boxer Virgil Kalakoda draw two times with Buakaw, some can arge that beat him once.

Virgil Kalakoda…..WTF…..again you show your lack of understanding in relation to the giant differences between Kick Boxing & Muay Thai and the differing dynamics that come into play under each set of differing rules. Those fights were under Japanese K-1 rules which points wise favours punching, a world apart from Full Muay Thai Rules where punches are low scoring strikes. K-1 no elbows or clinching, Kalakoda planting his head on Buakaw’s chest was ripe for the clinch not to mention vicious elbow assaults.

I only points that any martial in order to be truly effective needs to be mixed with boxing, which is clearly proved and contrasted the most effective manner of punch somebody and evade get punched.

Please I’d love to hear the technical thinking behind your above statement……That above statement would be funny if I didn’t know you were deadly serious. It smells heavily of a boxing fan that has a soft spot for maybe JKD and the teachings of Bruce Lee.

If anything, thailand is introducing more boxing than ever. And yes, muay thai as a combat sport introduced fastly western boxing and training methods in the 50's with the blend of western sailors.

As you are such an expert on the Thai fight scene can you explain what you mean by “If anything, thailand is introducing more boxing than ever.” Have you ever even been to Thailand, let alone even stepped foot in a Thai Muay Thai gym? Sailors!!!!….. Land locked Issan the traditional hotbed of Muay Thai in the 50s crawling with sailors who just happen to be experienced boxers…. come on man you gotta do better than that!

Because boxing is the best way to use and defend punches. You need some modifications in order to defend legkicks or to throw proper kicks yourself, but basically boxing is boxing, and there are different stances with different weight distribution in Queensberry rules.Also, as I said, you dont see urakens, wing chun or muay boran technique punching like "hannuman ring" and all that TMA things.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhal0aYuY1Y[/ame]


Boxing came in real useful there to defend against that right hand didn't it....


Oh boy, where do you find this stuff, Wikipedia?! As I said in the last post, what you see in modern Muay Thai are the basic offensive & defensive techniques that most traditional regional variants of “Muay Boran” had in common. It’s stripped down and standardized for the ring and then as you say developed upon. Interms of weight distribution between feet, you clearly one again no sweet FA about MT technique. In MT most of your weight is on the back foot, not like boxing where to throw punch with power you have to have a large proportion of weight on you front foot.

Muay Thai actually is a mixed combat sport.

What a fuckin insult to Thailand and Muay Thai!!! Don’t ever say that to a Thai. Muay Thai is a cultural jewel that looms large in Thai cultural history having been pivotal at many crucial times in their history.

Bullshit, even they are now paying cuban trainers to go to thailand to teach boxing to the nak muays.

Again…..FFS…. Those Cuban trainers are hired for the Thai Olympic Amateur Boxing team, in other words Nak Muay Samak Len not Muay Thai fighters (Nak Muay Thai). They’ve been hiring Cubans for the national squad for about 8 years now, it was a British trainer before that. And just to close as I’m such a generous guy I’ll explain to you what Nak Muay actually means… “Nak Muay” just translates as “Boxer” and is used to refer to Muay Thai fighters, Boxers, Amateur Boxers, Wrestlers and “MMA” fighters alike. It’s been adopted in the West by guys who don’t speak Thai and has been used incorrectly for some time now outside of Thailand in the sense that it is used by westerners to refer to only Thai boxers.

“Nak” is just a Thai prefix used to show someone who has a vocation, you then combine it with the action and this makes the vocation For example:

Nak Rien = Student
Nak Turagit = Business man
Nak Tong Tio = Tour Guide
So in the fight world:
Nak Muay Thai = Thai Boxer
Nak Muay Sakon = Western Styled Boxer (Pro)
Nak Muay Samak Len = Amateur Western Styled Boxer
Nak Muay Baum = Wrestler and surprisingly MMA fighter.

[PIRA]

You have more patience than me boranbkk! I read that and saw so many bullshit points but could not be bothered.

The national boxing team, Cuban trainers, Decker and Kalakoda points just had me shaking my head. (I have judged Virgil Kalakoda twice and never under FTR).


Gotta love guys who do a two day stopover in Thailand, go to a commercial gym where farang coin will gladly be taken, read wikipedia and think they are some expert in Muay Thai.

[Caestus]

Simply post a video of someone using Hannuman ring punch or wing chun against a boxer.Or tsukis, uraken or other TMA punching techniques.

All modern combat sports are mixed with boxing.

[sugarngold]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

FFS that's my point exactly! The thread opener was talking about Kung Fu guys on a classic sense & that's why I said Cung's a shite example for the thread!

And how the fuck did I "discredit him or his style"?

Look Boran you need to cool your fucking jets. when you have a fighter that is promoted not only as a San Shou fighter - but the best in the world at said style because he's defeated everyone else in the sport at the world level then he's a fucking Kung fu fighter regardless of what you say.

[dranon]

Originally Posted by sugarngold

Look Boran you need to cool your fucking jets. when you have a fighter that is promoted not only as a San Shou fighter - but the best in the world at said style because he's defeated everyone else in the sport at the world level then he's a fucking Kung fu fighter regardless of what you say.

Delete

[dranon]

Originally Posted by sugarngold

Look Boran you need to cool your fucking jets. when you have a fighter that is promoted not only as a San Shou fighter - but the best in the world at said style because he's defeated everyone else in the sport at the world level then he's a fucking Kung fu fighter regardless of what you say.

Cung le is a Mixed martial artist now. He also got the piss beat out of him by a shot to hell Wand and Scott Smith. So I wouldn't really say he is all that good either. The question was someone purely trained in only Kung fu .

[latineg]

Originally Posted by dranon

So me and a couple of friends were at the Bar watching the Jones vs Belfort card when one of the guys my friend brought with him says to my buddy "One on one fighting like this does not impress me I've seen 60 year Chinese guys fight 12 dudes at once". I said yeah but those are his students and that not real it's just for show.... then it just kinda got dropped.The night went great had fun then we left. Well about 10 minutes into the ride home it gets brought back up somehow and this time my friend says "Well in a fight with no rules the Kung fu guy would beat An MMA fighter or Boxer ".I said so if a Muay Thai fighter fought A Kung Fu fighter your saying Kung Fu wins? He says " he has just as much of a chance". He was dead serious, he thinks that Jackie Chan shit is real! So my question is do any of you believe Kung Fu Would be effective in a real fight against a good MMA fighter or Boxer? Or a Muay Thai fighter?

i have come along way with your answer

it is a valad question , a good one

the answer is YES REAL KUNG FU will DEFEAT any and all other martial arts

REAL KUNG FU is so powerful that one can use their mind and without moving any part of their bod the MMA guy's head will just BLOW right off and the fights over

thats why their not allowed to fight in the octagon

[Beouche]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

I swear this is the last Kung Fu related thread I’m ever getting involved in, it always ends in tears and I’m old enough to bloody well know better!



Hating? Who’s hating? This is a fight forum and if you say something people disagree with they’re gonna let you know about it.

I do realise I have the rather irritating and sometimes boring habit of pulling all striking conversations in the direction of Muay Thai, I admit I do see every combat experience through a Muay Thai prism but’s that’s only to be expected given my background of practical experience and years in Thailand. However, in the current thread regarding your original ignorant comment “in order to punch and defend punches, you need western boxing” I think my Muay Thai “prism” is valid.

In your last post we agree on one thing and it’s the main point of the tread: Classic Kung Fu is a waste of space in a full contact environment. Great……but the rest of it…….where do you get it form? I’ve heard nothing technical to back up any of your outrageous claims. I’m not saying I’m always right, but as most of the regulars in this forum will confirm I always try to back my arguments up with technical and practical reasoning and I suggest you do the same.

I’ll leave the comic book and VDO game analogies to the armchair experts such as yourself, I tend to keep my analogies purely in the fight world.

WTF! Diamond Dekkers a great trailblazing Muay Thai warrior and ATG no doubt (who I was lucky enough to meet in Lumpinee stadium in 2001), but he didn’t come to Thailand and demolish all the opposition, against Thais he lost more than he won, but he was brave & exciting, everything we love about fighters.

Virgil Kalakoda…..WTF…..again you show your lack of understanding in relation to the giant differences between Kick Boxing & Muay Thai and the differing dynamics that come into play under each set of differing rules. Those fights were under Japanese K-1 rules which points wise favours punching, a world apart from Full Muay Thai Rules where punches are low scoring strikes. K-1 no elbows or clinching, Kalakoda planting his head on Buakaw’s chest was ripe for the clinch not to mention vicious elbow assaults.

Please I’d love to hear the technical thinking behind your above statement……That above statement would be funny if I didn’t know you were deadly serious. It smells heavily of a boxing fan that has a soft spot for maybe JKD and the teachings of Bruce Lee.

As you are such an expert on the Thai fight scene can you explain what you mean by “If anything, thailand is introducing more boxing than ever.” Have you ever even been to Thailand, let alone even stepped foot in a Thai Muay Thai gym? Sailors!!!!….. Land locked Issan the traditional hotbed of Muay Thai in the 50s crawling with sailors who just happen to be experienced boxers…. come on man you gotta do better than that!


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Boxing came in real useful there to defend against that right hand didn't it....


Oh boy, where do you find this stuff, Wikipedia?! As I said in the last post, what you see in modern Muay Thai are the basic offensive & defensive techniques that most traditional regional variants of “Muay Boran” had in common. It’s stripped down and standardized for the ring and then as you say developed upon. Interms of weight distribution between feet, you clearly one again no sweet FA about MT technique. In MT most of your weight is on the back foot, not like boxing where to throw punch with power you have to have a large proportion of weight on you front foot.


What a fuckin insult to Thailand and Muay Thai!!! Don’t ever say that to a Thai. Muay Thai is a cultural jewel that looms large in Thai cultural history having been pivotal at many crucial times in their history.

Again…..FFS…. Those Cuban trainers are hired for the Thai Olympic Amateur Boxing team, in other words Nak Muay Samak Len not Muay Thai fighters (Nak Muay Thai). They’ve been hiring Cubans for the national squad for about 8 years now, it was a British trainer before that. And just to close as I’m such a generous guy I’ll explain to you what Nak Muay actually means… “Nak Muay” just translates as “Boxer” and is used to refer to Muay Thai fighters, Boxers, Amateur Boxers, Wrestlers and “MMA” fighters alike. It’s been adopted in the West by guys who don’t speak Thai and has been used incorrectly for some time now outside of Thailand in the sense that it is used by westerners to refer to only Thai boxers.

“Nak” is just a Thai prefix used to show someone who has a vocation, you then combine it with the action and this makes the vocation For example:

Nak Rien = Student
Nak Turagit = Business man
Nak Tong Tio = Tour Guide
So in the fight world:
Nak Muay Thai = Thai Boxer
Nak Muay Sakon = Western Styled Boxer (Pro)
Nak Muay Samak Len = Amateur Western Styled Boxer
Nak Muay Baum = Wrestler and surprisingly MMA fighter.

Epic post.