Does anybody still believe Kung Fu is effective in a real fight?

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by sugarngold

Look Boran you need to cool your fucking jets. when you have a fighter that is promoted not only as a San Shou fighter - but the best in the world at said style because he's defeated everyone else in the sport at the world level then he's a fucking Kung fu fighter regardless of what you say.

"Cool my fucking jets", why cos u say so?

Not going by what I say, I'm going by what Cung said in his interview in Fighting Fit June edition this year where he credits his kicking techniques as coming from Taekwondo.

In the fight game alot of people are promoted as a lot of things but it doesn't mean it's so.......

I've got no problem with Li he's exciting to watch, but he's about as mixed in a striking sense as you can get.

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by PIRA

You have more patience than me boranbkk! I read that and saw so many bullshit points but could not be bothered.

The national boxing team, Cuban trainers, Decker and Kalakoda points just had me shaking my head. (I have judged Virgil Kalakoda twice and never under FTR).


Gotta love guys who do a two day stopover in Thailand, go to a commercial gym where farang coin will gladly be taken, read wikipedia and think they are some expert in Muay Thai.

In for a penny in for a pound and all that.......

[PIRA]

Originally Posted by sugarngold

Look Boran you need to cool your fucking jets. when you have a fighter that is promoted not only as a San Shou fighter - but the best in the world at said style because he's defeated everyone else in the sport at the world level then he's a fucking Kung fu fighter regardless of what you say.

Muay Thai trainers were employed extensively as San Shou trainers in its beginnings. Also they extensively use Thai pads in training as does every other striking sport (except boxing) - never heard of Kung Fu pads.

The early MT versus San Shou shows were extremely interesting as they showed a vast gulf in abilities between the Thai's and the Chinese. The Chinese got better quickly but credit where credit is due - and it's not due to Kung Fu.

Cung Lee may have been the poster boy for San Shou but I believe he never fought Thai nor the top ranked K-1 competitors and stayed the fuck away from any of the top Thai stadiums - just like that other Kung Fu legend Bruce Lee.

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by PIRA

Muay Thai trainers were employed extensively as San Shou trainers in its beginnings. Also they extensively use Thai pads in training as does every other striking sport (except boxing) - never heard of Kung Fu pads.

The early MT versus San Shou shows were extremely interesting as they showed a vast gulf in abilities between the Thai's and the Chinese. The Chinese got better quickly but credit where credit is due - and it's not due to Kung Fu.

Cung Lee may have been the poster boy for San Shou but I believe he never fought Thai nor the top ranked K-1 competitors and stayed the fuck away from any of the top Thai stadiums - just like that other Kung Fu legend Bruce Lee.

Here come the Calvary! Great post PIRA!

[Toker]

Originally Posted by PIRA

Muay Thai trainers were employed extensively as San Shou trainers in its beginnings. Also they extensively use Thai pads in training as does every other striking sport (except boxing) - never heard of Kung Fu pads.

The early MT versus San Shou shows were extremely interesting as they showed a vast gulf in abilities between the Thai's and the Chinese. The Chinese got better quickly but credit where credit is due - and it's not due to Kung Fu.

Cung Lee may have been the poster boy for San Shou but I believe he never fought Thai nor the top ranked K-1 competitors and stayed the fuck away from any of the top Thai stadiums - just like that other Kung Fu legend Bruce Lee.

Off topic but what about kyokushin, I heard they did pretty well against Muay Thai??? I am no expert in either art though, just curious.

[PIRA]

Originally Posted by Toker

Off topic but what about kyokushin, I heard they did pretty well against Muay Thai??? I am no expert in either art though, just curious.

Kyokushin - great style, use to compete against them, one of the stronger and IMO more practical karate styles. Founder was Korean not Japanese. Produced many a K-1 competitor due to IMO favouring larger competitors with their tournament format. The first world championships Thais entered but were badly outweighed. Used to have the footage.

Again find it telling though that they sent their top three instructors / full contact fighters to Thailand in the 1950's to live and fight and came away with the Thai style round kick in replacement of the Japanese style round kick and the focus on leg kicks.

" In the same year, his dojo received a challenge from Muay Thai (Thai Boxing) practitioners. Oyama, believing that no other style was comparable to his, accepted the challenge and sent three students (Kenji Kurosaki, Tadashi Nakamura, Noboru Ōsawa) to Thailand who won 2 of the 3 fights, thus redeeming the reputation of his karate style."

Wikipedia has it wrong as usual. Makes no mention that they trained with the Thai's for over six months from what I know, they outweighed the Thai's and were the best 3 and went on to become the backbone of Kyokushin - not exactly weekend practioners!

[PIRA]

Originally Posted by boranbkk

Here come the Calvary! Great post PIRA!

[Caestus]

Yoshiji Soeno,the best Kyokushin at the time, in one of the Thailand challenges:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76pmkvf5N_I[/ame]

Notice how he box to win that fight and never uses any of karate punches.In fact is his superior boxing ability what really makes the difference over his thai challenger.

[PIRA]

Originally Posted by Caestus

Yoshiji Soeno,the best Kyokushin at the time, in one of the Thailand challenges:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Notice how he box to win that fight and never uses any of karate punches.In fact is his superior boxing ability what really makes the difference over his thai challenger.

One of the things thats sets Kyokushin competitors apart from other karate styles - they do not favor the chambered reverse punch. However Kyokushin punching is not boxing per se as it lacks a large amount of skill sets - for a start they never punch to the head in pure Kyokushin competitions.

[boranbkk]

Originally Posted by Caestus

Yoshiji Soeno,the best Kyokushin at the time, in one of the Thailand challenges:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Notice how he box to win that fight and never uses any of karate punches.In fact is his superior boxing ability what really makes the difference over his Thai challenger.

Oh Caestus, you realise with this clip you've shot yourself in the foot right?!?!?

That’s not Yoshiji Soeno, it's the Japanese Muay Thai pioneer Toshio "Cinderella Boy" Fujiwara! Look at your clip, notice the belt and the shorts at 8.30 and then the pose at 8.34,and then look at the pic in the article below, look familiar, it’s Fujiwara, the shorts even say his name on them.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


It's true Toshio studied Kyokushin under Japanese "Master", but after losses to Muay Thai fighters he quit, relocated to Bangkok where he lived, trained & fought for years. He was the first non Thai to win a stadium belt in Raja in 78. He then returned to Japan and cleaned up with his newly acquired Muay Thai skills.

That clip is after his return from Thailand. Both Toshio Fujiwara and Tadashi Sawamura where early MT legends in Japan with wins over Thais but both careers have been slightly tainted with "soft" fights in Japan where Thais were paid to lose I admit more Tadashi than Toshio. Don't take my word for it do some research, it's no big secret, it's common knowledge in Muay Thai and Kickboxing circles.

Please let's put this one to bed eh.....it's getting a bit tedious even for me let alone other posters on the forum.