Boxers Prime years

[irishny]

Originally Posted by KidDynamite

Ruddock himself said that those fights with Tyson practically finished him as a top level fighter.

And good job for showing us that Lewis fights nothing but Tyson left overs.

Face it, Lewis is nobody and Tyson is arguably the most famous and well known combat athlete in history.

Really??

Lets ignore for a moment how Lewis beat the ever loving shit out ofTyson when they did meet, Im sure you'll regale us with how washed up he was and how it would never have happend before Tyson raped that woman.

Lewis fought 44 fights in his career
Tyson fought 56 fights in his career.

Their pro careers were over basically the same period and length. Tyson was in jail for 3-4 years,but then again he went pro about 4 years before Lewis too.

Yet despite fighting less fight, Lewis has a better resume BY A F'ING MILE!!!

Lewis got beaten by McCall and Rahman,who both landed huge punches and were big punchers, but he avanged both those defeats.

Tyson got the snot beat out of his by James Douglas, who went on to fight Holyfield, got beaten in 3and basically retired.

Name one victory on Tysons resume that compares to Lewis beating Holyfield or Klitschko?

Berbick, blown uplight heavy Spinks? Bonecrusher Smith?? Old Larry Holmes?

Seriously,Ill wait.

[irishny]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

After Tyson beat on him for 19 rounds and (literally) broke his jaw?



Watching the fights would help... If you can't see the difference between 1991 Tyson and 1996, then you're beyond it. And no, the argument is 1991 Holyfield as you said it would've been the same result back then. They were both different fighters.

I see the difference. The difference is hes fighing a much better fighter than any of the ones he fought pre-prison.

THATS the difference. Its one thing to look amazing beating up Bonecrusher Smith, its another to do it against a truely elite fighter like Holyfield.

[Tyler-Durden]

Originally Posted by bballchump11

I was planning on doing the math and hopefully making a chart between the corelation of a fighter's debut age and retirement age, but I forgot how to do the math I learned in statistics

Pretty easy to do.

Give me the data & I'll try to find if there's a relation between the two & if yes, i'll find the function.

[Ripper11]

Originally Posted by irishny

Any evidence to back up a claim to the contrary?

Any evidence to prove that Tyson was some sort of genetic abnormality who went past his prime in his 20s despite being great shape?

He was 29/30 when he fought Holyfield. So he certainly wasnt past his peak age wise, he was the same weight, same muscle definition so he was clearly training.

Yet people here try to pretend that somehow,for some reason he was past his prime just because he got beaten.

If Tyson could have somehow fought the 1996 version of Holyfield in 1991, the same thing would have happened.

have you ever seen Tyson before prison? Before prison he was much faster, had better stamina, could throw beautiful combinations, had excellent head movement and footwork
Post prison Tyson just looked for that one punch. Every now and then he'd attempt to move his head, but never sustained it.

Plus Tyson in his prime would use his jab, cut off the ring, work the body more and was more patient when need be.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by irishny

I see the difference. The difference is hes fighing a much better fighter than any of the ones he fought pre-prison.

THATS the difference. Its one thing to look amazing beating up Bonecrusher Smith, its another to do it against a truely elite fighter like Holyfield.

In any fights after prison, not just Holyfield. I made a two paragraph post on it a couple pages back.

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

To be totally honest, Tyson didn't have his fighting guts anymore when he got out of prison and I give Holyfield full credit just for the fact that he was such an underdog going into it. I'd even go so far as to say Tyson was afraid of the guy and how he was going to be humiliated going into the second fight. It was all over his face.

That said, 89-91 is a completely different fight. Tyson of the Ruddock fights was much faster in terms of his hand and foot speed, still threw thunderous counters off jabs, still went to the body consistently, had greater stamina and was very, very angry (particularly after Douglas). Holyfield was barely above 205 lbs at that point, was more prone to trading in the center of the ring, wasn't as physically strong and rock solid and hadn't gained the experience he put to use in '96 to fight the way he did in order to beat a lackadaisical Tyson. I can guarantee one thing: When Holyfield butts '91 Tyson, Mike isnt going to be looking at the referee for help. Holy had some damn quick mitts himself and was adept at fighting on the inside, but it's honestly a fight I see Tyson battering him for the better part of 12 rounds. He signed to fight him for HALF the money Holyfield was due to get. He wanted it bad.

[irishny]

Originally Posted by Ripper11

have you ever seen Tyson before prison? Before prison he was much faster, had better stamina, could throw beautiful combinations, had excellent head movement and footwork
Post prison Tyson just looked for that one punch. Every now and then he'd attempt to move his head, but never sustained it.

Plus Tyson in his prime would use his jab, cut off the ring, work the body more and was more patient when need be.

Or maybe he just looked that good because he never fought anyone like Holyfield before nhe went to prison?

[irishny]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

In any fights after prison, not just Holyfield. I made a two paragraph post on it a couple pages back.

He looked like a beast beating Frank Bruno for the WBC belt.
.

[KidDynamite]

You don't seem to comprehend that Tyson was only fighting for money at that point. It took Lewis 8 rounds to beat Tyson when he was completely shot and came in at the second heaviest weight of his career. Tyson was not the same fighter and if you disagree with that then there is no point in arguing. It's like me trying to convince you that the sky is blue and you will keep denying it.


McCall was nothing but a sparring partner for Tyson and Rahman was a decent fighter but nothing spectacular. They completely laid Lewis out who was literally drifting in and out of consciousness. McCall lost to Douglas but was able to shatter Lewis effortlessly. Rahman was literally knocked out of the ring before he fought Lewis.

Lewis lucked out against Klitschko who was clearly dominating that whole fight and was booed out of the arena. He was so shaken by that fight he couldn't even go through with a rematch and ducked into retirement.

If Spinks is nothing but a "blown up" heavyweight then what is Holyfield? He also started out as a light heavyweight. Spinks was undefeated as the lineal champion who beat Larry Holmes twice. Holyfield already had 3 losses on his resume before fighting Lewis. Spinks beat a big time fighter in Cooney before his fight with Tyson.

Larry Holmes (on the decline but not completely faded), Spinks (undefeated linear champion), Tony Tucker (undefeated IBF champion), and a prime Razor Ruddock (considered the best fighter at the time beside Tyson) were all greater wins than a controversial victory over Vitali Klitschko who took the fight on 10 days notice and was winning until a doctor decided stoppage and Holyfield who was recently TKOed by Riddick Bowe.

And if Tyson fought nothing but "bums" then why is Lewis fighting the older already beaten version of these "bums"?

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by irishny

He looked like a beast beating Frank Bruno for the WBC belt.
.

He showed excellent movement the first 30 seconds or so...

You're citing Golota and Botha as "world ranked" fighters (one of whom suffered serious head trauma in the first and another who was a fringer at best) to give more credence to Lewis' win over a Tyson who was shot as early as the Botha fight, but then turning around and dismissing everything he did pre-prison, which was fight the best opposition available to him. Lou Duva was adamant about Holyfield needing more work before putting him in the ring with Tyson; that wasn't his problem.

[KidDynamite]

Also Lewis never really beat McCall. It was clear that there was something going on in that rematch.

McCall barely even fought back and was probably ordered to throw the fight ... so much for "avenging" his defeat against McCall.

The Lewis fight with Golota is also controversial ... Golota was supposedly drugged up for that fight.

The only big win for Lewis was Holyfield. The rest are all Tyson leftovers.

[Ripper11]

Originally Posted by irishny

Or maybe he just looked that good because he never fought anyone like Holyfield before nhe went to prison?

or maybe you've never actually seen him fight?



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqRxjkhhiBg[/ame]

Watch Mike in his prime how he would jab his way inside instead of just walking forward or swinging for the fences. Or he'd slip Holmes's punches to get closer.
Larry did fairly well at first too and Mike wasn't having too much success, but he was still doing the basic things Cus and Rooney taught to him.

Mike in his prime tried to break you down to the body and throw combinations constantly. Mike used to be one of the best combination punchers in boxing history, but he wasn't known for that after prison or his amazing headmovement.

Only somebody blind or a hater can't see this

[SoxNation]

Originally Posted by DrBanzai

Body ( bone growth) by about 21, brain and endocrine system by 23-25.

Metabolism does not start slowing by 20 though.

Prime is 20-30 for smaller faster fighters, big guys who are power punchers are more in the 25-35 range. When young fighters like Tyson get their ass kicked by a journeyman the Tyson fans like to say he was past his prime. Excuses are like arm pits, the real truth is he was prime and lost.

I actually believe that your metabolism does begin to decrease at around 20, but it starts to see even more of a jump in reduction at around 25.

You can't determine a boxer's prime solely on their size, speed or power. It can be a number of things. Genetics and the punishment that a fighter takes is what's most important.

People viewed Tyson as being past prime based on his style of fighting and not his age. If you've seen Tyson in the 80's, you would know that he wasn't the same fighter in the 90's. There was a decline in skill and defense overall for him. Even when he was in his late 30's no one ever questioned his punching power.

[KidDynamite]

The Buster Douglas that fought Tyson would've KTFO Holyroid easily

Douglas came in 15 pounds overweight with no motivation. The Douglas that beat Tyson would've shattered Lewis too.

[Ripper11]

Originally Posted by KidDynamite

The Buster Douglas that fought Tyson would've KTFO Holyroid easily

Douglas came in 15 pounds overweight with no motivation. The Douglas that beat Tyson would've shattered Lewis too.

lets not go overboard now

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Ripper11

lets not go overboard now

I've taken zero shots at Holyfield or Lewis.