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Old 10-01-2012, 02:58 PM   #16
Bogotazo
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

People should post technical arguments and comments addressing the issue or leave. Talk about whether the fight would happen or other fantasy fights or who you think is overrated elsewhere.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Mayweather won't fight him.

Maravilla will be another boxer who the Mayweather joy boys will say he would have beaten had the fight happened.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

If Floyd EVER fought Maravilla, I would ban myself from here.

But guess what, Flomos? THAT AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN. HE WILL NEVER FIGHT HIM.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

It would be a hell of a fight either at 154 or even at 160 reason the main cause both fighters are athletic and r technically sound. I don't believe Floyd will go that way cause Pacquiao is a good selling event and Pac is surely beatable now. I also believe Floyd would beat Martinez basically cause Martinez would not go for the big punch right away so to see him start going at it, he would have to dictate the pace and control the tempo. Having said that, Martinez never gets going in that fight cause he doesn't push Floyd back with a jab or a lead left right down the pipe consistently but only in spurts whereas Floyd builds his lead and takes control of the fight gradually. What I am saying here is that technically Floyd beats Sergio to the punch and Sergio would have to load up with his punches better early than never like Shane and Zab did... I surely can't see Sergio outboxing Mayweather, as simple as that.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

i swear to god if this fight happens and Martinez is the underdog i'm making serious money
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:10 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Godd stuff BB and Bogo. I myself am looking to pick Martinez due to his higher output and movement, especially out of the Southpaw stance where his jabs would definitely trouble Floyd regardless of his philly shell or high guard stance.

Really want this fight badly.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Sergio's right hook is a bigger danger to Mayweather than the left hand, which would only be a threat for 4 rounds.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
Interesting that you base your premise on the fact that Floyd would come forward on Sergio, because I think that Floyd taking the lead would actually lead to his downfall, in a sense. Even though Floyd has very good accuracy and judge of distance when coming forward, it puts me on edge every time he leads into his punches. Few fighters have ever tried to make Floyd lead, and I think Martinez would try to exploit this by baiting him. I noticed that against southpaws, when he tries to come forward, he sometimes follows them around the ring, and walks into shots he normally wouldn't.

Here, at :30 secs, Mitchell catches Floyd with a few stiff jabs while circling, and Floyd is planted since he's stuck on the front foot.

From 3:40 on, you can see Floyd simply following whenever Mitchell steps. The reason I point this out is because Martinez's favorite tactic is to walk towards the right hand when out of range, so that his opponent follows and cedes the space he needs to circle back the other way and regain the center of the ring. I think Floyd trying to walk him down plays into his hands. 4:09 shows Floyd reach uncharacteristically, and almost/arguably loses the round on ceding the angle.

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Here he is reaching against Cotto, lifting his right leg off the ground and stepping forward into a lunge nearly ever time with his chin in the air:

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Then of course there's the right-hook counter knockdown against Judah and the handful of counter-lefts he walked into.

I simply don't think Floyd is stylistically suited to come forward against Sergio (as a main strategy anyway, in spots it could work great). At least, I'd feel nervous as a Floyd fan watching him leap into shots.

The point you mention about Barker, however, is a way I think he can get at Martinez. If he sports a high guard but hangs back a bit while engaging, he can anticipate Sergio's jab and knock it down, since like you said, it's already down low. Floyd's parrying skills against Judah show that he can paw and neutralize certain key punches from a southpaw if they stay still trying to play chess with him, including the jab. If he can catch Martinez side-stepping without throwing or rushing forward with check hooks and rights to the body, he can start to dismantle his offense.

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In terms of in clinches, I think it's anybody's game. Floyd is defensively superior, but Sergio will no doubt throw in more volume and with much more potency. He did after all break Jr.'s face. I don't think the fight would end up here often except in those award moments of coming together that always happen between opposite-stance fighters, but if it did, I think it could favor Floyd in terms of points within the round, but also Sergio in terms of damage done to Floyd which could affect him down the road and overall in the fight, especially considering Floyd's one nearly always open spot is the right side of his body (hard right hooks).

I think I'd favor the former scenario to occur and pick Sergio, but I think Floyd can win using elements of what you said and what I added. Good post.
I wouldn't have ever thought Floyd was going to come forward vs Sergio until watching him do it vs Mosley and Ortiz who were both pretty dangerous opponents for Floyd. Also watching the Barker fight helped as well. Floyd will need to be very very careful while doing it and keep his defense tight, but it's possible. He can't give Sergio many opportunities to counter.

You make an excellent point about Mayweather tending to follow his opponents around, and the Mitchell fight is a good example of this. I believe Floyd is a better pressure fighter now than he was then and much stronger. That version of Floyd probably wouldn't have been able to come forward vs Shane like he did later on. Sergio will be much tougher than both Mitchell and Shane though, so it still could cause trouble, but we'll have to see. I don't think he'll be coming on as hard as he did in that fight either since he'll respect Sergio more than he did Mitchell.

Also that move Floyd does with the lead right was a maneuver he used to increase the range/power on his cross and to allow him to get close to smother his opponent. I see the point you're making, and I think that has to do with Floyd's age as well. He used to get away with that punch all the time when he was younger, but he'll have to be careful vs Sergio.
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Also just because he's coming forward doesn't mean he has to lead all the time. He can do it behind his defense and countering Sergio (Floyd should study some Sweet Pea to prepare )

Everything you said will come into play though. Floyd needs to be careful for Sergio straight left to the body as well. I've seen him get hit with that punch against almost every southpaw he's faced. It isn't an easy fight for either guy.

Good post
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by C.J. View Post
This is all just a pipedream . If you really believe Mayweather will ever fight Martinez I've got some beach front property in Oklahoma to sell
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Originally Posted by iceman71 View Post
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Cool story bro

Why only Martinez when Floyd could beat the like of SRR or SRL...this is a fantasy fight after all .
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Originally Posted by ImElvis666 View Post
Mayweather won't fight him.

Maravilla will be another boxer who the Mayweather joy boys will say he would have beaten had the fight happened.
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Originally Posted by vargasfan1985 View Post
If Floyd EVER fought Maravilla, I would ban myself from here.

But guess what, Flomos? THAT AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN. HE WILL NEVER FIGHT HIM.
you guys are useless
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
Sergio's right hook is a bigger danger to Mayweather than the left hand, which would only be a threat for 4 rounds.
yeah definitely. The counter Floyd is most vulnerable to is the right hook especially over his left hook since he throws it with his elbow down and kinda slaps with it.
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I've actually noticed though, that in the Ortiz and Cotto fight, Mayweather actually seemed to fix that a little and is throwing the hook more parallel to the ground, but he still can get lazy.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:43 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
you guys are useless
You're underrating Floyd to much in fantasy fight...you shouldn't be a Flomo because you're a disgrace to Floyd . Floyd could beat the like of a prime Tyson, why would he want to beat Martinez .
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Quote:
Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
yeah definitely. The counter Floyd is most vulnerable to is the right hook especially over his left hook since he throws it with his elbow down and kinda slaps with it.
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I've actually noticed though, that in the Ortiz and Cotto fight, Mayweather actually seemed to fix that a little and is throwing the hook more parallel to the ground, but he still can get lazy.
That's not a right hook coming from Marquez, that's just a slightly looping straight right. He's right handed (unless he was fighting in the SP stance at that time). Good thread though!
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:01 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
you guys are useless
Why, cause we're right?

Do you really think Floyd will fight Maravilla when he won't fight Pac? Maravilla offered an 80-20 split with testing.

Bye Flomo Faggot
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Excellent thread with some superb posts.
Can't help thinking Bogo's right about Floyd not coming forward though.I think he'd walk right into trouble going down that road,whereas I think standing off would allow him to pick off Sergio's weird head positioning once he found his rhythm.
Worth bearing in mind that it's 154 Floyd though,and that's a totally different fighter when trying to predict the outcome of a Floyd fight,and he's not as mobile on his feet,so they're coming together in the centre much more than in lighter Floyd fights.
I agree with bball that a high guard may be necessary at times though,and he'll be watching for that right.
BUT..
Here's why I think Martinez puts up a good show;He has an excellent grasp of distance,and too many people are caught up in the Oscar fight as the only way to beat Floyd.For me,the trick would be not to smother him off the jab,but to step away after the jab and in particular,the clinch and pick your shots on the way out.
It's Martinez' ability to step back and away that makes this fascinating for me.I reckon Floyd can see most combinations coming,and Sergio's ability to be very unorthodox is what gives him a fighting chance here.
Floyd will engage a lot more than he used to,but I still think he has to go back to the old school in this fight because coming forward all night is exactly what Sergio would want.
I just don't buy into this smothering stuff.It'll take a lot more than that to beat Floyd over 12.Who gives a **** if it works for three rounds?
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:17 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Martinez is harder than any other fight out there, for Floyd.
but that is ONLY due to size put him in Zab Judah body(who is the same size as Floyd) an its a mismatch and everyody would be saying how much of a mismatch this is and how martinez keep his hands to low etc.
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