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Old 10-01-2012, 10:25 PM   #2506
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rorschach51 View Post
MARVIN HAGLER 116 | 113 RAY LEONARD

MMH vs SRL
9-10
9-10
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
10-9
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
10-10

Still to this day, THE finest job of anybody convincing the crowd, which in turn I can only assume convinced the judges he was winning. With all his flash and showboating, using his hand speed to mystify everyone into thinking this was not only a close fight, but that he won....The only rounds he won without question were the first 2 Hagler was fighting orthodox in, and the 6th. The rest was Leonard pulling the wool over the judges eyes. Marvin won 7 rounds convincingly, with the last round being even, despite all the running and showboating in the final round by Ray, he barley did enough actual work to make that round even. Just a despicable outcome, in which Hagler was truly robbed by a total acting job, and I really can't blame him for walking away forever after such a total betrayal.

Still aggravates the shit out of me to this day, 7 rounds too 4 with 1 even, or 116-113 Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
personally can't see giving rounds 3 and 4 to hagler but to each his own
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:45 PM   #2507
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
Mayweather Castillo
10-9
10-9
10-9
10-9
9-10
9-10
9-10
9-9
10-9
9-9
9-10
9-10

113-113

That's my scorecard for the first Mayweather-Castillo bout. 113-113, draw. I was a bit generous to Floyd, though. Could easily have given Castillo a 10-8 round instead of 9-9, and I could find another round that you could give JLC. Thought he should have retained the title.
That was my initial score, but recently I find myself giving the fight to Floyd. I give him the first 5, 9, and 11. I used to give five to Castillo, but I still think Floyd was controlling the way the contest was being fought at that point. 11 features good two way action, but Floyd tends to land the cleaner shots, and gets it on my card. Not a robbery or gift decision. While I think a case could be made for scoring it in JLC's favor, Mayweather's case seems a bit stronger to me at this point.
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:05 AM   #2508
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Ursua was a monster puncher.
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:20 AM   #2509
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Eder Jofre vs Jose Medel #1 (Jofre KO10) , d rematch is missing .

Good fight with parts of long range "boxing" and parts short range "infighting" .

Jofre did bending from d waist down whenever he feels that his opponent can make a move/attack .

If I scored it then i would have had Jofre leading prior 2d stoppage but not by much .

At some point d referee had 2 restore Jofre's laces 2 how they should b .
Do not know how much effect it had on d fight and i do not mean as a timeout but rather by how much it effected Medel's vision .
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:09 AM   #2510
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Eddie Cook KO5 Israel Contreras

Cook boxed , retreated and threw combinations from time 2 time until he caught Contreras with a good straight left which moved him backwards 2d ropes where Cook finished him with a right hook .
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:39 AM   #2511
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

I think there is footage of Jofre-Medel II.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:03 AM   #2512
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
I think you're giving Marv a bit too much credit there, mate. I honestly couldn't envision giving the Marvelous one seven rounds, as much as I love him. After scoring this bout I ended up with a 114-114 result. Dead even.

Hagler truly and utterly ****ed himself in the first couple of rounds by not doing enough work and turning orthodox. If he'd just fought his ass off from the start, it was very much a winnable fight.
I see where you are coming from, but what I find questioning is how you cannot conceive giving Hagler 7 rounds, when you yourself gave him 6. Is it really that hard to envision myself scoring 7 rounds to Marvin, when you had 1 round fewer for him?

The first 2 rounds and the 6th were absolutely Leonard's rounds, the 11th was close, but I felt Ray did enough to convincingly take it. Beyond that it was all smoke and mirrors from Sugar Ray, and it didn't help that everyone in that arena not only bought it all hook, line & sinker but that they all wanted Ray's comeback to be a success. Hagler despite giving away the first 2 rounds (something to which I still don't understand why he did it) put in his usual workman like performance. Landed the clearly harder shots, stunning and even hurting Ray on a few occasions. Marvin's shots were moving Leonard, while nothing Ray ever did had any effect on Hagler. What never really gets talked about is, for all Ray's flashy flurry attacks, the vast majority was either blocked by Hagler or missed altogether. The nostalgia of seeing Ray do his thing (no matter how ineffective) and spectacle of it all (the movement and speed shoe-shining) is what was scored.

I favor Hagler's work, and that Ray's offense was largely ineffective, over The Sugar Ray show, in which the same thing happened in the Hearns rematch. Unless you're gonna tell me that was really a draw, and Tommy wasn't gypped out of his victory and redemption.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:26 AM   #2513
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Ray's output was flashier, quicker hands and making a show of it, triumphant return, I can see why it was scored in his favour. EDIT: In no way do I think something was up with the judges or scorecards. Not a robbery or anything like it, Leonard won.

It's the perfect narrative really unless you're a fan of Hagler, then it's painful.
I see what you are saying Flea, I really do, and I understand why the fight was awarded to Ray. However I never agree with awarding flash and nostalgia over substance and quality. Imo, Hagler giving away the first 2 rounds is what really hurt him, as they were the deciding rounds for the judges that scored it 115-113 for Leonard. The judge that scored it 118-110 for Ray, should have been dragged outback, and let Ajax deal with as he saw fit

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Old 10-02-2012, 10:29 AM   #2514
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Ursua was a monster puncher.
I want to see Torres-Ursua trilogy so bad!
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:34 AM   #2515
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Painful! It doesn't exist at all.

Anyway, you seen Ursua Vs Freddie Castillo (the stoppage is out there) and Vs Tomori (my channel)?
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:01 AM   #2516
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Painful! It doesn't exist at all.
I know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Anyway, you seen Ursua Vs Freddie Castillo (the stoppage is out there)?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Vs Tomori (my channel)?
Yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester1583 View Post
What the hell?

Why fearless Ursua fought so timidly against feather fisted Tomori?!

Pretty sure Ursua was shocked to the core when he saw what his punches did to Zapata.
That fight changed Ursua forever.

There's no other logical explanation.
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #2517
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

I don't think he was your stereotypical marauder from the footage I've seen. Just an average boxer type with a big dig when he landed a sweet counter. Which he could!

Castillo footage is ropey but on YouTube Shows Castillo drubbing Estaba as well, SAVAGE!
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:02 AM   #2518
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Chavez-Taylor I

First I'm going to post just my scorecard, then a full and in-depth round by round summary. Sorry if it goes on too long, I think I got carried away.

JCC-MT
9-10
10-9 19-19
9-10 28-29
9-10 37-39
9-10 46-49
9-10 55-59
9-10 64-69
9-10 73-79
9-10 82-89
10-9 92-98
10-10 102-108

Round 1: 10-9 Taylor

Taylor comes out in the round a little stiff and full of nervous energy, which you can see in the way he moves his feet and throws his jab a second too soon, with Chavez still out of range. He takes the first :45-1:00 calming down and getting comfortable. Chavez only manages to land 2 noteworthy punches in that time, a lead right and little leaping left hook. Around the 1 minute mark Taylor settles in and begins responding to Chavez' attempts to close the distance, and begins mixing up what he's doing, moving in and out more fluidly, making Chavez miss while Taylor keeps him off balance. Chavez largely stops throwing, letting Taylor take the round by default as he jabs, lands lead left hooks, etc. Chavez starts trying to come alive at the end but too little too late, Taylor has won the round.

Round 2: 10-9 Chavez. Total: 19-19.

Taylor starts the round with a good lead right as Chavez tries to come in. Chavez is trying to close the distance, first by jabbing his way in, then by trying a right hand counter over a Taylor jab, but Taylor is dancing away from everything. Taylor isn't landing anything though as he dances, almost everything is falling short or missing as Chavez bobs and weaves while trying to come in. About a minute in Chavez lands his first good punch, the straight right of a 1-2 that lands solidly. Taylor attempts to flurry with 2 or 3 punches twice, but again almost everything misses. You get the feeling that Chavez is unprepared for how difficult it is to get close to Taylor, while Taylor is surprised that he's missing Chavez so much.

Chavez gets close and manages to land a decent left hook, Taylor backs away and lands a good jab, but a second later Chavez does one his favorites moves and walks in behind a lead right, finally chest to chest with Taylor. It only lasts for a second, as Taylor crouches and lands 2 lefts to the body, Chavez backs off a step rather than let Taylor rack up the points.

The two trade lefts in close, then both land good rights, Taylor's slightly better. They trade some jabs before Chavez gets close enough to hit Taylor with an inside right when Taylor drops his left inside. Taylor backs off and lands some good jabs, but Chavez lands a left hook and another inside right when Taylor's left is low. More jabs are exchanged, Taylor keeps going to the body when Chavez is in close. Taylor lands a light combination, Chavez launches a wide but effective left hook. He then walks in behind his lead right again, and when Taylor doesn't react quickly enough Chavez hits him another one of those inside rights, and this time it seems to effect Taylor because he needs to get his balance afterward. Taylor tries a 1-2 and gets caught with a tight left hook. Chavez finishes strong by landing a good right over a Taylor jab and a strong jab.

Good round for Chavez, but he has two major problems at this point: he can basically only land one punch at a time, (not good for an accumulation puncher, as Chavez is at 140) and when he gets close Taylor consistently lands to the body, so Chavez either needs to lets Taylor score points while Chavez picks his spots or he has to break off to keep Taylor's fast hands from stealing the limelight.

Round 3: 10-9 Taylor. 29-28 Taylor total.

Taylor comes out quick, trying to score early with jabs and left hooks. Not much lands before Taylor slips while Chavez tries to work up close. Taylor lands a left hook as Chavez comes in, moves back, and tries it again, but this time it's blocked and he eats a Chavez hook. Taylor responds with a combination of hooks to the body and the head, when Chavez tries to come forward to respond Taylor lets loose about half a dozen jabs and straight rights, some of which land well, some are glancing, and in the meantime he moves around the one punch Chavez tries to land.

Chavez tries to get close again, and they both trade left hooks. Chavez comes in again and tries to go back to the inside right hand that worked so well in round two, but Taylor leans away and it glances off the back of his head. Taylor lands a glancing 1-2 as Chavez comes in and they trade body punches inside, Taylor winning 2 to 1, but then Chavez lands two straight rights, the second one a solid blow as Taylor goes for a right of his own that never lands.

After another exchange inside Taylor goes back fighting at distance and keeping Chavez at the end of his jab. Much of the rest of the round is spent with Taylor frustrating Chavez at long range, Chavez occasionally gets in close and lands a punch at a time, but Taylor flurries every time, and Chavez isn't landing as effectively or often as the previous round. While it's not a blowout round, Taylor has done more work, landed more, and controlled the ring more.

Round 4: 10-9 Taylor. 39-37 Taylor total.

This is the point where Taylor starts taking over the fight. Taylor keeps Chavez at arm's length with his jab throughout much of the round, ocassionally catching Julio as he tries to close, occasionally surprising Julio by attacking first, which forces Julio to back away, and then he has to reset and attempt to get close all over again.

Through the first minute, Chavez only lands 2 punches, a right that glances off Taylor's ear and a good jab. Throughout the rest of the round Taylor is firmly in charge, and Chavez is forced to accept that he can only get close occasionally, and on not all of those occasions can he be effective. All too often Taylor's head moves to the side of Chavez' punches or beyond his reach when he throw, and Taylor is often scoring with combinations of 2 or 3 punches at a time. Taylor's round all the way.

Round 5: 10-9 Taylor. 49-46 total.

The previous round seems to have either given a new burst of energy or confidence to Taylor, because he starts the 5th bouncing, eager to get out, and although he eats a decent Chavez hook the first time they gets close Taylor responds with punches of his own, then dodges Julio's attempts to strike back. Taylor begins controlling even most of the inside exchanges, landing 2 and then either taking one or dodging the return fire.

Taylor maybe becomes too encouraged by his success in close because he spends most of the round locked chest to chest with Chavez, and eventually, superb infighter that he is, Chavez begins to land. While Taylor seems to be getting the better of it due to rapid fire fisticuffs, Chavez has moments of his own, including when he lands a combination of left and right hooks for the first time in the fight, and then a moment later a big left hook that knocks Taylor's head back and maybe wobbles him just the slightest bit.

Taylor continues staying locked in close, and Chavez has probably the most success yet working on the inside. Taylor probably wins the round due to early dominance and activity, but this round is a microcosm of the overall fight: Taylor's early dominance and handspeed is winning on the cards of the judges, but in allowing Chavez to remain at close range Taylor is letting him do effective damage that will tell later.

Round 6: 10-9 Taylor. 59-55 Taylor total.

This round starts with Taylor fighting how he should, moving backwards, jabbing Chavez, picking his spots where his superior handspeed gives him the edge. Chavez spends the early portion of this round trying to finally unload his body assault, and lands several lefts to the body while Taylor flurries to the body and head.

Taylor lands a good 1-2, Chavez responds with a left hook that is partially blocked, Taylor responds with a flurry that either misses or is partially blocked. Chavez tries his trick with the inside right over Taylor's lowered left again, but Taylor is already moving away and the punch hits nothing but air. Taylor circles, keeping Chavez at arm's distance or beyond. Chavez is reduced again to attempting one punch at a time, and Taylor is dodging most of those.

They trade jabs a few times, Chavez landing more solidly. Chavez manages to land a lunging lead right, but can't capitalize much on it. Taylor jabs and circles, jabs and circles, and keeps Chavez missing when Chavez tries to attack. Chavez manages another left to the body, but it's not too hard a punch and Taylor lands to the head at the same time. When Julio gets close Taylor lands an uppercut-hook combo, then a second later he winds up with his right and lands a straight laser of a right on Julio, a few seconds later when Chavez gets close and starts to set, Taylor hits him with a lead left hook and moves away before Chavez can react. Chavez begins lunging more and more towards the end of the round, but because Taylor is circling all the time twice Julio's momentum carries him right past Taylor.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:19 AM   #2519
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Round 7: 10-9 Taylor. 69-64 Taylor total.

Fast round. They repeatedly trade shots to the body, Meldrick lands a couple of wicked left hooks to the head and a few uppercuts on the inside. Chavez gets in his own good work with sneak right hands, some left hooks (a few are decent, but most are arm punches) but it's almost entirely overshadowed by Taylor. Chavez has some success to the body and with a left to the body left to the head, but Taylor snaps his head back with an uppercut.

Taylor's round, but blood is now pouring freely from his nose, and Taylor is visibly swelling.

Round 8: 10-9 Taylor. 79-73 Taylor total.

Lou Duva is late to leave the ring at the start of the round, trying to control the flow of blood from Taylor's nose. Chavez lands a decent left to the body early and a light left to the head, Taylor responds with a very nice overhand right. Taylor lands an uppercut-hook combo and a few jabs, then a good jab that knocks Chavez' head around, Julio looks mad at himself for getting caught with it. They promptly trade rights and exchange inside.

Chavez tries a new tactic, he tries staying away from Taylor and trying to catch Taylor by surprise when he suddenly and unpredictably comes forward throwing. It works once or twice, but whether it's successful or not Taylor is consistently catching him with double left hooks and straight rights. Chavez lands a straight right a few seconds before the bell, but it's Taylor's round again.

Round 9: 10-9 Taylor. 89-82 Taylor total.

Panic in Chavez' corner between rounds, they know the fight is slipping away. Chavez looks stoic and determined as ever. Taylor tries to seize control early by immediately launching a straight right that passes along the side of Chavez' head. They trade back and forth at close range, Taylor landing more and flashier shots, Chavez landing harder ones.

Taylor spends nearly the entire round in a phone booth fight with Chavez, and for the first time since round 5 Chavez has a chance to land multiple punches instead of one or at most two at a time. Taylor has a slight edge in terms of activity/punches landed, but Chavez is doing significant damage and for the first time Taylor's strength seems to be leaving him.

Round 10: 10-9 Chavez. 98-92 Taylor total.

Taylor again comes out to make a statement early, landing first a good 1-2 then an uppercut-hook combo. Chavez misses the sole punch he tries to respond with. Taylor doesn't stay away for long, he's too tired to dance or jab and circle. They get in close and Chavez lands a few good hooks and an uppercut, Taylor responds with a furious flurry, including a big left hook and straight right. Chavez comes forward and eats a 1-2, Taylor suddenly seems rejuvenated and keeps throwing punches, not landing many but keeping Chavez on the defensive. As soon as Taylor stops, however, Chavez calmly walks in and lands little rights and lefts.

Chavez begins landing multiple short rights and left hooks, Taylor answers back. That's the pattern for the rest of the round, as the two trade punches relentlessly. Taylor stubbornly hangs in on the inside with Chavez, answering almost everything Chavez hits him with. Taylor's legs are looking weaker and weaker, but his heart is staying strong. Chavez begins hitting Taylor with bone jarring lefts and rights, Taylor digs deep to land a good uppercut and several good left hooks in the final 30 seconds. Well fought round by both men, I can understand anyone scoring the round for Taylor since he started strong and did his best to keep the rest of the round even, but Chavez inflicted more damage and had Taylor wobbly and hurt in the mid and late sections of the round. Taylor looks tired and dazed at the end of the round.

Round 11: 10-10. !08-102 Taylor total.

Taylor comes out looking slightly energized again, starting out faster and sharper than he finished the last round, although it'll only last for a minute and 15 seconds or so. Taylor lands several good jabs and a hard uppercut on the inside, but Chavez keeps coming forward and lands hard rights and lefts of his own. Chavez no longer has any issue getting inside, staying there, or landing combinations on Taylor. Taylor tries to answer back every time Chavez lands a decent punch. Chavez hits him to the body, he comes back to the head, Chavez hits him to the head, he throws left hooks to Chavez' body.

Taylor keeps leaning in on Chavez though, no longer able to dance, and needing support to keep him going. It's not a good place to be against Chavez. Taylor is successful for awhile, landing and foiling Chavez, but Chavez starts catching him with hard left hooks and then a BIG right hand as Taylor is in the middle of throwing. Taylor comes back with two punches, after a couple of seconds Chavez does his left hook to the body and hard left hook to the head combination. They continue exchanging, taking rest, then exchanging more throughout the round, Chavez landing a couple of good short uppercuts that jostle Taylor's head towards the end. Taylor is disoriented and woozy at the end of the round.

Round 12: Chavez TKO Taylor.

Taylor's weariness shows early in the round, as his knees nearly buckle and his balance almost deserts him twice in the opening 30 seconds, once after a left hook from Chavez, once as Taylor comes forward behind a lead right. Taylor briefly looks sharper as he jabs and trades hooks with Chavez, but when he falls to the floor after missing a wild left that comes nowhere Chavez, it shows just how tired and battered he is.

Still, Taylor is moving and throwing just enough to keep Chavez off or upset his rhythm, several times is seems like Chavez has him lined up for a good shot but Taylor happens to throw at the same time and disrupts the punch. Chavez lands several decent straight rights through the start and middle of the round, but he's missing too often, and you could be forgiven if, after the first 1:50, you didn't think Chavez could get to Taylor.

Then with about a minute left Chavez connects first with a good left hook, then a straight right. Chavez immediately comes back with a 1-2, then a solid left hook that impacts Taylor hard on the jaw. Taylor tries to taunt Chavez by pretending to buckle, but Chavez is not put off in the slightest by the bravado and continues the attack.

Twice more he catches Taylor with solid left hooks, and when Taylor tries to flurry, he eats a big straight right as well. Taylor follows after Chavez, throwing 1-2s, trying to fight his way through to the end. Chavez snakes a right over a Taylor jab, and then comes the beginning of the end: as both fighter go to throw, Chavez catches Taylor with a monster 1-2 that buckles Taylor, and it's only by sheer heart and force of will that Taylor stays up. Chavez steps in to continue with more straight punches and a left to the body, and Taylor half runs, half staggers toward Chavez.

Chavez retreats backwards to the corner, then steps to the side as he hits Taylor with a hook and, just as Taylor did to him earlier, lets Taylor's own momentum carry him into the ropes, and worse yet, the corner. Nowhere to go, Taylor takes some half hooks/half uppercuts, then Chavez lands the crashing right that sends him down. Taylor drags himself up, but stares blankly at Richard Steele when twice asked if he's ok. Steele waves the fight off, and Chavez is the owner of the most remarkable and controversial comeback in boxing history.

I won't say anything about whether the stoppage was good or bad except this: when Larry Merchant went to interview Taylor in the ring afterward, Taylor swore up and down that Steele ended the fight without doing a count or asking Taylor if he was ok.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:21 AM   #2520
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Default Re: the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

It's a completely fair stoppage IMO. Nice write up.
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