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Old 10-02-2012, 06:34 PM   #166
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Guys, I copywrote 'totally ****ing useless'

So erm?
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:49 PM   #167
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by o_money View Post
You make a lot of good points but floyd knows what the greats of the past knew.....that you have to come forward against a southpaw. Because when you get close to a southpaw he stops being a southpaw.
It's why Floyd has had success in the past, but no way I see him being a good enough pressure fighter to out-maneuver Sergio coming forward. He's not a swarmer or conventional infighter, so he's not going to go chest to chest with Sergio to diminish the angles. Hence BBall said he would prefer if Floyd advanced but still countered right in front of Sergio, which benefits Floyd more IMO.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:59 PM   #168
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
It's why Floyd has had success in the past, but no way I see him being a good enough pressure fighter to out-maneuver Sergio coming forward. He's not a swarmer or conventional infighter, so he's not going to go chest to chest with Sergio to diminish the angles. Hence BBall said he would prefer if Floyd advanced but still countered right in front of Sergio, which benefits Floyd more IMO.
Review the tape and watch how much Ortiz was making Mayweather miss. Don't get me wrong, Mayweather landed some eye catching right hands, but Ortiz isn't exactly the most reactive fighter, and he managed to make Floyd miss much more than usual, especially as the fight went on. Perhaps, Floyd found it hard to get up for that fight, but it could also be a sign of decline.

Sergio is an anticipating counterpuncher with a lot of experience and foot speed.

If Floyd doesn't open up first, he'll give Sergio too much time to operate and he'll break down Floyd with lefts to the body, and to the face.

If Sergio is just completely weight drained and a shell of himself, Floyd has a chance, but if the Sergio showed up that fought Chavez, I think he KOs Floyd.

Floyd is not going to take this fight. He could make a lot of money, more than he would with anyone else aside from Pacquaio and maybe Canelo, but he's also more dangerous that Pacquaio and Canelo.

I will say that Canelo does pose some problems and as he gains more experience and Floyd gets older, the fight outcome shifts in his favor.

Right now, it's close to 50/50 as it is.

But against Sergio, again, I think Floyd gets knocked out.

I believe he'll fight Berto after he beats K-9.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:03 PM   #169
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Review the tape and watch how much Ortiz was making Mayweather miss. Don't get me wrong, Mayweather landed some eye catching right hands, but Ortiz isn't exactly the most reactive fighter, and he managed to make Floyd miss much more than usual, especially as the fight went on. Perhaps, Floyd found it hard to get up for that fight, but it could also be a sign of decline.

Sergio is an anticipating counterpuncher with a lot of experience and foot speed.

If Floyd doesn't open up first, he'll give Sergio too much time to operate and he'll break down Floyd with lefts to the body, and to the face.

If Sergio is just completely weight drained and a shell of himself, Floyd has a chance, but if the Sergio showed up that fought Chavez, I think he KOs Floyd.

Floyd is not going to take this fight. He could make a lot of money, more than he would with anyone else aside from Pacquaio and maybe Canelo, but he's also more dangerous that Pacquaio and Canelo.

I will say that Canelo does pose some problems and as he gains more experience and Floyd gets older, the fight outcome shifts in his favor.

Right now, it's close to 50/50 as it is.

But against Sergio, again, I think Floyd gets knocked out.

I believe he'll fight Berto after he beats K-9.
I agree.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:41 PM   #170
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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I am very confident that Mayweather would beat Martinez. Maybe as wide as 9-3 or something like that. The difference in boxing ability is very significant and Martinez would be dumbfounded once he realises that he needs more than speed, foot movement and reflexes.

I dislike Mayweather and I have been a big Martinez fan for ages, but this is not a close fight.
While I don't bother with many of Jack's posts, he has a point here. Floyd's boxing skillz has stood the test of time against HOFers along with an ATG or two.

***y Sergio on the other hand has had performances that aren't too clean against lesser opposition.

***y Sergio's size plus his athleticism and some aspects of his style is what makes this an interesting fight.

I wouldn't be confident about this being a competitive fight if Serg was Floyd's size.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:47 PM   #171
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

You can beat Sergio if you box him.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:47 PM   #172
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by Leon View Post
While I don't bother with many of Jack's posts, he has a point here. Floyd's boxing skillz has stood the test of time against HOFers along with an ATG or two.

***y Sergio on the other hand has had performances that aren't too clean against lesser opposition.

***y Sergio's size plus his athleticism and some aspects of his style is what makes this an interesting fight.

I wouldn't be confident about this being a competitive fight if Serg was Floyd's size.
How much does size matter when it can't be enforced? Martinez couldn't impose his size on Mayweather, which is why the weight difference doesn't bother me in this fight.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:13 PM   #173
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
I got tired of always having to write out an analysis for this fight, so I just wanted to make a thread, so I don't have to anymore
Here's why and how I think Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez. I'm just taking my old breakdown and adding more details to it and new things I learned from watching Sergio.




The way I see Floyd fighting and frustrating Sergio is by coming forward with his high guard and catching and neutralizing Sergio's jab while he tries to establish his jab. It's hard to out jab a southpaw who is taller than you (Ortiz) but if Sergio keeps his hands down, then you can land easy. Sergio always drops his hands by his side after he throws his jab and even Chavez Jr was able to counter over it. Sergio has a great jab, but dropping down to your waist after you throw it is an awful idea vs Mayweather.
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I see Floyd maybe getting caught a few times in the first few rounds from Sergio countering him from weird angles, while Floyd tries attack him. Barker had success because he didn't give Sergio much to counter and when he did throw, he would step back and also bring his hands back quick and high enough for him not to get countered. Macklin also tried to use his reach and be economical with his punches to avoid Sergio countering him.

I think Floyd will feint Sergio into moving the way he wants whole his hands are down and then follow up with a lead right. He'll also make sure to get out the way and pot shot to avoid counters like this
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Sergio after a while may try to start leading more like he did with Barker, but Floyd won't stand still when he flurries. In the words of Money Mayweather - "You won't see him hitting me with that wild shit." When Floyd is in his high guard, he still makes sure he can retreat quickly with his feet. So combos like this WILL NOT be landing on Floyd. Floyd isn't like Dzinzurik or Barker when using his high guard, because he uses much movement than them.
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Also Sergio despite Sergio being the bigger man, I think Floyd will get the better of him in the pocket and in clinches. Sergio showed some good stuff against Chavez, but defensively, he has no answer in the pocket. That's what sets fighters like Mayweather or Ward apart from other fighters in the pocket, is their defense. Plus even when against the ropes or up close, Sergio's answer to it would be to put one arm up to his face and keep the other hand down and sit there without rolling or slipping anything.
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You guys can very much expect Floyd to be targeting Sergio's body in this fight. Macklin had plenty of success setting up his straight right to the body with the help of his feints and range finding jabs (similar to the gif shown above). After multiple rounds of establishing that punch, the right hand upstairs became very open for Macklin.

With all that said, I hope this fight takes place at 154 pounds in 2013
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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
Interesting that you base your premise on the fact that Floyd would come forward on Sergio, because I think that Floyd taking the lead would actually lead to his downfall, in a sense. Even though Floyd has very good accuracy and judge of distance when coming forward, it puts me on edge every time he leads into his punches. Few fighters have ever tried to make Floyd lead, and I think Martinez would try to exploit this by baiting him. I noticed that against southpaws, when he tries to come forward, he sometimes follows them around the ring, and walks into shots he normally wouldn't.

Here, at :30 secs, Mitchell catches Floyd with a few stiff jabs while circling, and Floyd is planted since he's stuck on the front foot.

From 3:40 on, you can see Floyd simply following whenever Mitchell steps. The reason I point this out is because Martinez's favorite tactic is to walk towards the right hand when out of range, so that his opponent follows and cedes the space he needs to circle back the other way and regain the center of the ring. I think Floyd trying to walk him down plays into his hands. 4:09 shows Floyd reach uncharacteristically, and almost/arguably loses the round on ceding the angle.

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Here he is reaching against Cotto, lifting his right leg off the ground and stepping forward into a lunge nearly ever time with his chin in the air:

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Then of course there's the right-hook counter knockdown against Judah and the handful of counter-lefts he walked into.

I simply don't think Floyd is stylistically suited to come forward against Sergio (as a main strategy anyway, in spots it could work great). At least, I'd feel nervous as a Floyd fan watching him leap into shots.

The point you mention about Barker, however, is a way I think he can get at Martinez. If he sports a high guard but hangs back a bit while engaging, he can anticipate Sergio's jab and knock it down, since like you said, it's already down low. Floyd's parrying skills against Judah show that he can paw and neutralize certain key punches from a southpaw if they stay still trying to play chess with him, including the jab. If he can catch Martinez side-stepping without throwing or rushing forward with check hooks and rights to the body, he can start to dismantle his offense.

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In terms of in clinches, I think it's anybody's game. Floyd is defensively superior, but Sergio will no doubt throw in more volume and with much more potency. He did after all break Jr.'s face. I don't think the fight would end up here often except in those award moments of coming together that always happen between opposite-stance fighters, but if it did, I think it could favor Floyd in terms of points within the round, but also Sergio in terms of damage done to Floyd which could affect him down the road and overall in the fight, especially considering Floyd's one nearly always open spot is the right side of his body (hard right hooks).

I think I'd favor the former scenario to occur and pick Sergio, but I think Floyd can win using elements of what you said and what I added. Good post.
Great post guys!! Don't really agree with Bballchump on this one.. but tis still nice to see people actually like and analyze boxing instead of talking retarded trash like 90% of ESB.......

BTW.. I think FLoyd is better off potshotting.. leading against a slick counter puncher is not smart when you are the smaller man and facing a southpaw?... no way.. MArtinez would counter him with jabs and uppercuts... much like JMM always does to Manny.... Floyd is better off pottshotting and circling constantly.. movement woul dhelp.. and counter when Martinez decides to do a wreckless flurry......... at 154.. I think Mayweather is young enough and fast enough to beat the older and maybe weight drained Martinez... as long as he doesn't get hit with anything big and tries to outclass Martinez (maybe even a TKO if he drains Martinez out).. at 160, I think Martinez honestly knocks FLoyd out.. real talk....
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:17 PM   #174
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by Leon View Post
While I don't bother with many of Jack's posts, he has a point here. Floyd's boxing skillz has stood the test of time against HOFers along with an ATG or two.

***y Sergio on the other hand has had performances that aren't too clean against lesser opposition.

***y Sergio's size plus his athleticism and some aspects of his style is what makes this an interesting fight.

I wouldn't be confident about this being a competitive fight if Serg was Floyd's size.
Yeah fam.. but Martinez ain't Floyd's size.. I think at 154 Floyd wins...... but he has to use his skills and ring IQ.. if they were the same size it wouldn't really be argument at all who wins.... but if Floyd tries to do to Martinez what he did to Cotto.. he will be in a really tough fight
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:19 PM   #175
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Originally Posted by Beezy View Post
Yeah fam.. but Martinez ain't Floyd's size.. I think at 154 Floyd wins...... but he has to use his skills and ring IQ.. if they were the same size it wouldn't really be argument at all who wins.... but if Floyd tries to do to Martinez what he did to Cotto.. he will be in a really tough fight
Haven't seen no swarmeresque qualities from Sergio yet. He's more like a somewhat slick southpaw boxer-puncher
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:46 PM   #176
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Let's be real. Martinez is too physical and strong for Mayweather. He beat up Chavez Jr. bad. The fight won't get made.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:47 PM   #177
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Let's be real. Martinez is too physical and strong for Mayweather. He beat up Chavez Jr. bad. The fight won't get made.
how many times have I heard this?
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:53 PM   #178
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

Good thread Bball.

Based on latest developments, anyone else see Floyd vs Berto early next year with Canelo late year? Seems to be the path at the moment as far as Money's return and plans.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:56 PM   #179
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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Good thread Bball.

Based on latest developments, anyone else see Floyd vs Berto early next year with Canelo late year? Seems to be the path at the moment as far as Money's return and plans.
I don't know why, but I keep thinking Floyd is going to fight Devon Alexander next.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:06 PM   #180
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Default Re: Why Mayweather beats Sergio Martinez

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I don't know why, but I keep thinking Floyd is going to fight Devon Alexander next.
Wouldn't be totally surprised but that fight doesn't really lead to anything.

Berto would mean another belt leading to the unification super fight with Canelo after.

Berto was just handed an HBO date after a failed drug test and unimpressive performance before that. Seems odd under the new regime.
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