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Old 10-02-2012, 10:39 PM   #31
rekcutnevets
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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Very strange for a guy who's got Anderson in his avatar.
Do you believe a sailboat can defeat a battleship?

I change my avatar from time to time. It isn't always about who I think the best fighter in the world might by. That last avatar was in support of Silva in his fight against Sonnen.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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Ruas did have good technique, but he could be beaten on the feet by rudimentary strikers.
Yes Oleg could be considered that...but in striking terms Rickson was below Oleg, by the distance of Dana's jaw line from before he started the roid therapy to now... Ruas actually fought rudimentary strikers who's chin allowed them to get away with such in antiquities Who would fair best in such situations, Marco stopping the favoured Rickson pass to side control to armbar, or Rickson slipping a jab or checking a leg kick?
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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Do you believe a sailboat can defeat a battleship?

I change my avatar from time to time. It isn't always about who I think the best fighter in the world might by. That last avatar was in support of Silva in his fight against Sonnen.
I never said a Sailboat is the best war machine ever.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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Yes Oleg could be considered that...but in striking terms Rickson was below Oleg, by the distance of Dana's jaw line from before he started the roid therapy to now... Ruas actually fought rudimentary strikers who's chin allowed them to get away with such in antiquities Who would fair best in such situations, Marco stopping the favoured Rickson pass to side control to armbar, or Rickson slipping a jab or checking a leg kick?
I dont see Ruas preventing a takedown and Im no Rickson fan but his BJJ is some of the most refined ever, I just cant see Ruas not tapping. I wouldnt pick Ruas over Severn for example or even Shamrock.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:12 AM   #35
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

In 1996, or about that time, long before UFC was a commercial enterprise, Marco Ruas was known in black belt magazine as the most "complete fighter" in the world.

I disagreed at the time, but it was true that in the mid 90s, Ruas had almost the same skill set that is used by top MMA guys today
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:26 AM   #36
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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Another thing you have to remember is that Rickson is a BJJ practitioner first, and I don't mean sport bjj. Rickson is not trying to win rounds, and he isn't going to be interested in competing in something that would allow for separations due to inactivity. Rickson wants to use his family's art to finish a fight. He doesn't care about winning a decision under today's rules. Watch Rickson's fight with Funaki. Rickson got the clinch on Funaki within seconds, and they remained in the corner jockeying for position for over 8 minutes. They would have been separated in 30 seconds under today's rules. That means Rickson would have to close the distance way more often under the mma rules of today as opposed to the rule that he fought under.

I think Rickson would probably have some ko losses under today's rules. He would be forced to close the distance far more often than he is accustomed to doing, and opens himself up to strikes the more times he has to close the distance. Someone would eventually catch him with a hard shot and finish him.

I still think that Rickson is the most lethal, one on one, fighting machine I've ever seen.
Good post. Even though Rickson ducked Saku, and Sakuraba most definitely would have given Rickson all the rules he wanted had they fought, I like how you broke down how "pure" bjj technique would fare in todays MMA athletic comission sanctioned climate.

One thing that stood out to me when Rickson fought Funaki was the way Rickson was on his back and dealt with the kicks to his legs from Funaki.

The other Gracie's had no answer to Sakuraba's leg kicks, but Rickson's answer to Funakis kicks was very impressive and made me think maybe he could have dealt with Sakuraba. Maybe even quite easily as far as those leg kicks go.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:15 AM   #37
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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I never said a Sailboat is the best war machine ever.
Touche
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:25 AM   #38
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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Who would fair best in such situations, Marco stopping the favoured Rickson pass to side control to armbar, or Rickson slipping a jab or checking a leg kick?
I'd give Rickson the edge in both of these scenarios, but that is due to Ruas' passivity. If Ruas had been more aggressive with his strikes, I might doubt Rickson's ability to get him to the floor.

That does not address the point you are making, and it is a good one.

I'll use Rizzo as an example, because he was more effective with his stand-up than Ruas was in my opinion. Rizzo is also quite large for Rickson, so maybe this isn't the best example. **** it, I think it will work.

With longer time limits, and no separations due to inactivity, I think Rickson would do well against Rizzo. He would only have to close the distance once, and if he ever got the fight to the ground, you would get to see whether or not he ends the fight in submission.

With separations due to inactivity, more frequent round changes, etc...It makes Rickson have to close the distance against a much better striker repeatedly, and gives the better striker a chance to catch him with something and knock him out.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:13 PM   #39
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

**** it, Rickson by armbar
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

Rickson never ducked Sakuraba. Rickson Gracie was the best jiujitsu player and fighter to come out of Brazil by virtue of defeating all opponents in the birthplace of what would become MMA where BJJ schools had intense rivalries with Vale Tudo schools that emphasized what? Muay thai and no gi jiujistu ala modern mixed martial artists. Rickson came to the States with his brother in the late 80's and spread the art through backroom smokers against all challengers.

Rickson helped raised MMA at the world level by his victories in Japan at the same time his brother was winning in the UFC. Rickson at what was by then the end of his career helped raise Brazilian jiujitsu and the sport that would become mixed martial arts to prominence. If Sakuraba wanted to fight Rickson then he had two Japanese based tournaments to enter and get his chance but it never happened. Sakuraba wasn't a mixed martial artist at the point Rickson was ending his career. Saks DUBIOUS victory over Royler hurt his chance to get a superfight with Rickson - when the ref stopped the fight without a tap or verbal submission from Royler who was severely outweighed by Sakuraba. Sak and the for lack of a better term scheming Japanese were not to be trusted after that point much like in Royce's first fight with Yoshida which was stopped simply because Yoshida obtained the mount position.

Rickson left the Pride org which was essentially started to defeat him - to fight in the fledgling Kingdom organization against one of the best Japanese martial artist to come out of the Pancrase org - Funaki - who held submission victories over everyone from Bas Rutten to Ken and Frank Shamrock to Guy Mezger to Maurice Smith. Rickson chocked him unconscious - the same as he would have done to Ruas, Rutten, Shamrock, Sakuraba and any other fighter below 200 lbs that you could have put in the ring with him at the time. Poll any number of knowledgeable jiujitsuan about the best jiujitsu fighter ever and they will all point to one man. Now let's lay off the lame ass ducking bullshit talk and show some respect to the God of Jiujitsu Rickson Gracie.

End of paragraph. End of thread.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:17 AM   #41
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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End of paragraph. End of thread.
Wait. You think He can beat the king of the Streets?
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:14 AM   #42
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Default Re: Rickson vs Sakuraba = Mayweather vs Pacquiao

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Rickson never ducked Sakuraba. Rickson Gracie was the best jiujitsu player and fighter to come out of Brazil by virtue of defeating all opponents in the birthplace of what would become MMA where BJJ schools had intense rivalries with Vale Tudo schools that emphasized what? Muay thai and no gi jiujistu ala modern mixed martial artists. Rickson came to the States with his brother in the late 80's and spread the art through backroom smokers against all challengers.

Rickson helped raised MMA at the world level by his victories in Japan at the same time his brother was winning in the UFC. Rickson at what was by then the end of his career helped raise Brazilian jiujitsu and the sport that would become mixed martial arts to prominence. If Sakuraba wanted to fight Rickson then he had two Japanese based tournaments to enter and get his chance but it never happened. Sakuraba wasn't a mixed martial artist at the point Rickson was ending his career. Saks DUBIOUS victory over Royler hurt his chance to get a superfight with Rickson - when the ref stopped the fight without a tap or verbal submission from Royler who was severely outweighed by Sakuraba. Sak and the for lack of a better term scheming Japanese were not to be trusted after that point much like in Royce's first fight with Yoshida which was stopped simply because Yoshida obtained the mount position.

Rickson left the Pride org which was essentially started to defeat him - to fight in the fledgling Kingdom organization against one of the best Japanese martial artist to come out of the Pancrase org - Funaki - who held submission victories over everyone from Bas Rutten to Ken and Frank Shamrock to Guy Mezger to Maurice Smith. Rickson chocked him unconscious - the same as he would have done to Ruas, Rutten, Shamrock, Sakuraba and any other fighter below 200 lbs that you could have put in the ring with him at the time. Poll any number of knowledgeable jiujitsuan about the best jiujitsu fighter ever and they will all point to one man. Now let's lay off the lame ass ducking bullshit talk and show some respect to the God of Jiujitsu Rickson Gracie.

End of paragraph. End of thread.
Some good points and I can tell you know what you're talking about.

But the fact remains. Sakuraba got a questionable stoppage over Royler after beating the crap out of him for the whole fight but there is no way on earth anybody can make an argument that Royler stood a chance in that fight. Granted, Royler was much smaller than Sakuraba, so Royce showed up to fight Sak with all kinds of ridiculous rules which resulted in Royce actually leaving Japan in a wheel chair when the fight was done and Sakuraba going on to fight Igor V.

Then Renzo came along and got his arm broken. Then Ryan (RIP) literally got his ass spanked by Sakuraba.

I forget what fight happened first... Sak vs Ryan or Rickson vs Funaki...

But it doesn't matter. The fact remains, the Gracie family promoted themselves as being undefeated for 70 years until Ishmael put Royce to sleep and Sakuraba defeated Royler, Royce and Renzo in dominating fashion. Rickson Gracie had his chance to represent his family. But instead....

...Rickson said, "Sakuraba has no aura as a warrior"... Seriously, wtf is that?! Brings us back to the origin of this thread, that Mayweather has ducked Pacquiao, the same way Rickson ducked Sakuraba for fear of risking an undefeated record.

No doubt that Rickson is a brilliant jujitsu artist, but Royler, Royce, Renzo and even Ryan had the balls to step up where Rickson only gave excuses.
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