Top 3 Fighters... In Last 30 Yrs ?

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

What? No it wasn't. He's saying he stopped watching boxing because they changed it from 15 rounds to 12 rounds and no fighter after that era is any good basically.

And he mentioned Hopkins without mentioning his daddy

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by Duodenum

If Chavez, Whitaker, and B-Hop had the opportunity to establish themselves as 15 round fighters (not their fault), then I would have to give them all very serious consideration.

Frankly, I can't bring myself to vindicate in any way what the powers that run boxing have done in ruining it this way. Another factor has to do with my only knowing of them primarily by reputation. I've described elsewhere on this forum how the abolition of the 15 round distance in professional boxing, and the imposition of headgear in amateur competition turned me off completely to both sports. (The wearing of mandatory headgear aggravates and accelerates the progression of brain damage by encouraging the tendency to accept a blow that would otherwise be actively defended against. It's nothing more than "feel good" regulation meddling and tradition tampering. As is often the case, the cure is worse than the disease. Want to magnify the speed with which boxers succumb to pugilistica dementia? Mandate 24 ounce gloves and more thickly padded headgear which obscures peripheral vision. Neurology would become the most popular specialty in medicine overnight!)

Looking at your points, I would be a very disappointed boxing fan if 15 rounds were suddenly changed to 12 rounds today. But your being overly critical and unfair when ranking the fighters who have stricly fought 12 rounders though, as many fighters are judged against each other through different eras. Who was the best "pound for pound" boxer of all time being the best example.

I watched Jack Johnson recently against Burns and Ketchel. And the lack of real punching action is nothing short of ridiculous. More wrestling inside than clean effective boxing. And the rules were a shambles. During the Johnson v Ketchel fight, a monster right hand from Ketchel floored Johnson, who immediatley rose from the canvas to floor Ketchel in return. No count, no nuetral corner rule. Quite simply more of a street fight than a boxing match.

[Duodenum]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Looking at your points, I would be a very disappointed boxing fan if 15 rounds were suddenly changed to 12 rounds today. But your being overly critical and unfair when ranking the fighters who have stricly fought 12 rounders though, as many fighters are judged against each other through different eras. Who was the best "pound for pound" boxer of all time being the best example.

I watched Jack Johnson recently against Burns and Ketchel. And the lack of real punching action is nothing short of ridiculous. More wrestling inside than clean effective boxing. And the rules were a shambles. During the Johnson v Ketchel fight, a monster right hand from Ketchel floored Johnson, who immediatley rose from the canvas to floor Ketchel in return. No count, no nuetral corner rule. Quite simply more of a street fight than a boxing match.

The disastrous impact that this change had was instant. Bobby Chacon and Bazooka Limon boxed in the final 15 round match the WBC ever sanctioned, and Chacon's knockdown in the closing seconds of the electrifying 15th round decided the outcome. This action made it Ring Magazine's Fight of the Year, over Pryor/Arguello I.

Later, I watched one of the WBC's first truncated 12 round championship fights, for Arguello's vacated LW Title. Beyond any doubt, the only reason Rosario won was because that match was scheduled for the shortened distance. (The idea of Arguello boxing in a 12 round world championship match is unthinkable.)

The final stanza of the last 15 round championship match ever contested was also pivotal, as Jorge Paez dropped Calvin Grove to overtake him in the scoring, and win the IBF featherweight title 19 years ago.

If Hagler/Duran had been scheduled for 12 rounds, Duran would have dethoned Marv. Would SRL have outscored Hagler if that one had been scheduled for 15 rounds? (For that matter, would SRL have won his rematch with Hearns?) I can't swallow the idea of Salvador Sanchez, Danny Lopez, Carlos Palomino, or Victor Galindez fighting 12 round championship matches.

You could turn the IBHOF roster upside down if matches were all scheduled for 12 rounds. Would the FOTC still be the FOTC without the 15th round?

Would growth enhancing substances that inflate muscles and increase bulk while maintaining speed in ways with no precident in boxing still be a viable strategy for winning boxing championships, if title bouts were still scheduled for 15 rounds? (Wait until they cut the championship limit to ten rounds, with other main events scheduled for no more than eight. Within two years, boxers will look like Mr. Olympia contestants.)

Bottom line is that this is the only forum on ESB I have any involvement or interest in for reasons like this.

There are plenty of enthusiasts of boxing as it is today, and anybody who enjoys it has no reason to care about my lack of interest in it. (And who knows, maybe one day, I'll grow up, pull my head out of my butt, and accept the present as is. For the time being though, I'll just continue to reminisce about days gone by before my time.)

[Stonehands89]

No apologies necessary, Duo. I and many others agree wholeheartedly.

[heerko koois]

1- Tyson [ 1985 -1989 version ]
2- Chavez [ 1985- 1992 ]
3- Donald Curry [ 1983-1986 ]

[avsouza06]

Leonard
Hagler
Chavez

[ajohnfp]

Leonard
Duran
Whitaker

HM: Chavez, Spinks, Hagler, Jones

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by Duodenum

The disastrous impact that this change had was instant. Bobby Chacon and Bazooka Limon boxed in the final 15 round match the WBC ever sanctioned, and Chacon's knockdown in the closing seconds of the electrifying 15th round decided the outcome. This action made it Ring Magazine's Fight of the Year, over Pryor/Arguello I.

Later, I watched one of the WBC's first truncated 12 round championship fights, for Arguello's vacated LW Title. Beyond any doubt, the only reason Rosario won was because that match was scheduled for the shortened distance. (The idea of Arguello boxing in a 12 round world championship match is unthinkable.)

The final stanza of the last 15 round championship match ever contested was also pivotal, as Jorge Paez dropped Calvin Grove to overtake him in the scoring, and win the IBF featherweight title 19 years ago.

If Hagler/Duran had been scheduled for 12 rounds, Duran would have dethoned Marv. Would SRL have outscored Hagler if that one had been scheduled for 15 rounds? (For that matter, would SRL have won his rematch with Hearns?) I can't swallow the idea of Salvador Sanchez, Danny Lopez, Carlos Palomino, or Victor Galindez fighting 12 round championship matches.

You could turn the IBHOF roster upside down if matches were all scheduled for 12 rounds. Would the FOTC still be the FOTC without the 15th round?

Would growth enhancing substances that inflate muscles and increase bulk while maintaining speed in ways with no precident in boxing still be a viable strategy for winning boxing championships, if title bouts were still scheduled for 15 rounds? (Wait until they cut the championship limit to ten rounds, with other main events scheduled for no more than eight. Within two years, boxers will look like Mr. Olympia contestants.)

Bottom line is that this is the only forum on ESB I have any involvement or interest in for reasons like this.

There are plenty of enthusiasts of boxing as it is today, and anybody who enjoys it has no reason to care about my lack of interest in it. (And who knows, maybe one day, I'll grow up, pull my head out of my butt, and accept the present as is. For the time being though, I'll just continue to reminisce about days gone by before my time.)

On another thread, "strangest boxing opinions" I shared my views. The following you certainly won't find strange in the slightest. With the weight of boxers being checked more intensely these days, also safer and more adequate equipment at ringside, 15 round championship fights should be brought back for a 12 month trial period.

The fatal outcome between Mancini and Kim was the beginging of the end for 15 round championship fights. But it wasn't only down to Kim struggling to make the weight for the fight, which no doubt was partly to blame for his lapse into a coma, but the WBA's crazy rating system which had him as the mandatory challenger for the title. Where did he come from?. He should never have been in the ring in the first place.

Its been well researched recently that large amounts of weight being taken off over a short period of time is extremely dangerous. Thats why boxers are now weight checked during camp leading up to fights by commissions and sanctioning bodies, so the weight is taken off in gradual stages. And looking back to gruellingly hard fought 15 round championship fights, combined with no weight checks, its spells fatality. DEHYDRATION.

[enquirer]

I think chavez did have one fight which either went or was schedhuled for 15?
Anyway;
ray leonard
hearns.
hagler.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by Duodenum

The final stanza of the last 15 round championship match ever contested was also pivotal, as Jorge Paez dropped Calvin Grove to overtake him in the scoring, and win the IBF featherweight title 19 years ago.

The last 15 round championship fight contested was when Samruth Sitnarupon beat Hwang In-Kyo over the distance for the IBF mini-flyweight title. Not long after Paez fought Grove.

[Duodenum]

Originally Posted by Robbi

The last 15 round championship fight contested was when Samruth Sitnarupon beat Hwang In-Kyo over the distance for the IBF mini-flyweight title. Not long after Paez fought Grove.

If so, then I stand corrected. (My interest in boxing had already waned by that time.)

Concerning your fine post about dehydration, I agree completely that boxers should simply compete at whatever weight they happen to be at when in top condition. Henry Armstrong was perfectly comfortable defending the WW Title while weighing under the LW limit himself. SRL always started his training camps under the limit of the weight he would be competing at, and SRR dominated Joey Maxim while under the MW limit, and took two out of three from LaMotta while under the WW limit. The example set by their successes should instruct modern boxers not to weaken themselves in order to make weight. (Basilio only weighed 153 when he dethroned Robby.)

[rekcutnevets]

Duran, Leonard, Whitaker