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Old 10-06-2012, 07:49 AM   #16
Vysotsky
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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Originally Posted by conraddobler View Post
If Cotto and Alvarez haven't done anything at JMW, lets take a look at Konecny. Pardon me while I take a look at Boxrec.

According to Boxrec, Konecny's best three wins are:

1. (220) Serge Vigny (who was at the time 22-15)
2. (162) Hussein Bayram
3. (155) Matthew Hall

For a 34 year old, this is not very impressive.

How about Canelo, age 22?

His last seven opponents have higher Boxrec rankings than Konecny's best ever win (Serge Vigny).

Kirkland has 4 wins over fighters with ratings above 220 plus Brian Vera and Ossie Duran.

Bundrage has 5 wins over fighters better than Konecny's best win (Serge Vigne).

Say what you will about Boxrec rankings, they are perfectly objective. And what they tell me is that Konecny is 34 years old and doesn't have any notable wins.

But Vysotsky thinks he should be fighting Cotto and has a good shot.

There you go again!
It's revealing that you speak with such authority about a boxer you seem unfamiliar with and your entire argument is based on boxrec ratings.

Konecny's biggest fights were his three title fights against Varon, Piccirillo, and Dzinziruk. I had him winning the first two and the Dzinziruk fight was close and could be scored 7-5 for Konecny just as easily as for Dzinziruk.

Using Kirkland as an example can Lukas get KTFO against Ishida then be back on HBO against a name jmw several months later? No, unfortunately he hasn't fought on the most influential TV network for boxing and they aren't actively pushing his popularity and giving him the same oppertunities like Kirkland, Canelo, Trout.

As i said i like what iv seen from Canelo and do think he is talented but his best wins against legit jmw's that were somewhat prime was Rhodes, Gomez, Cintron, Baldomir and none were actually prime. What i said was that he hasn't done anything to distinguish himself as being a level above the other top jmw's.

I'm able to evaluate and form my own opinion based on what i see from a fighter inside the ring. You're invited to be as much of a boxrec warrior as you want but i'll always trust my own eyes more.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:01 AM   #17
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
It's revealing that you speak with such authority about a boxer you seem unfamiliar with and your entire argument is based on boxrec ratings.

Konecny's biggest fights were his three title fights against Varon, Piccirillo, and Dzinziruk. I had him winning the first two and the Dzinziruk fight was close and could be scored 7-5 for Konecny just as easily as for Dzinziruk.

Using Kirkland as an example can Lukas get KTFO against Ishida then be back on HBO against a name jmw several months later? No, unfortunately he hasn't fought on the most influential TV network for boxing and they aren't actively pushing his popularity and giving him the same oppertunities like Kirkland, Canelo, Trout.

As i said i like what iv seen from Canelo and do think he is talented but his best wins against legit jmw's that were somewhat prime was Rhodes, Gomez, Cintron, Baldomir and none were actually prime. What i said was that he hasn't done anything to distinguish himself as being a level above the other top jmw's.

I'm able to evaluate and form my own opinion based on what i see from a fighter inside the ring. You're invited to be as much of a boxrec warrior as you want but i'll always trust my own eyes more.
(So when it comes to Canelo you're a strict Boxrec warrior, but with Lukas Konecny it's all your boxing judgment).

It's true, I haven't yet acquired the Konecny career DVD set yet (but Christmas is on the way), but I did watch the Piccirillo fight.

Are you saying the Piccirillo fight wasn't close? You're probably aware that Piccirillo knocked him down in the 9th and it was ruled a slip. Aside from that, I'd say Piccirillo controlled the last half of the fight, rather clearly, cutting up Konecny's face in the process. Definitely not a clear Konecny win, could have gone either way.

But it did reveal a tough but somewhat limited fighter who was outboxed for large stretches. And this was 6 years ago in his physical prime.

And you're confident a 34 year old Konecny beats Angulo, Kirkland, Molina, Trout, and maybe Cotto?

Cotto!
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:24 AM   #18
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
It's revealing that you speak with such authority about a boxer you seem unfamiliar with and your entire argument is based on boxrec ratings.

Konecny's biggest fights were his three title fights against Varon, Piccirillo, and Dzinziruk. I had him winning the first two and the Dzinziruk fight was close and could be scored 7-5 for Konecny just as easily as for Dzinziruk.

Using Kirkland as an example can Lukas get KTFO against Ishida then be back on HBO against a name jmw several months later? No, unfortunately he hasn't fought on the most influential TV network for boxing and they aren't actively pushing his popularity and giving him the same oppertunities like Kirkland, Canelo, Trout.

As i said i like what iv seen from Canelo and do think he is talented but his best wins against legit jmw's that were somewhat prime was Rhodes, Gomez, Cintron, Baldomir and none were actually prime. What i said was that he hasn't done anything to distinguish himself as being a level above the other top jmw's.

I'm able to evaluate and form my own opinion based on what i see from a fighter inside the ring. You're invited to be as much of a boxrec warrior as you want but i'll always trust my own eyes more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by conraddobler View Post
(So when it comes to Canelo you're a strict Boxrec warrior, but with Lukas Konecny it's all your boxing judgment).

It's true, I haven't yet acquired the Konecny career DVD set yet (but Christmas is on the way), but I did watch the Piccirillo fight.

Are you saying the Piccirillo fight wasn't close? You're probably aware that Piccirillo knocked him down in the 9th and it was ruled a slip. Aside from that, I'd say Piccirillo controlled the last half of the fight, rather clearly, cutting up Konecny's face in the process. Definitely not a clear Konecny win, could have gone either way.

But it did reveal a tough but somewhat limited fighter who was outboxed for large stretches. And this was 6 years ago in his physical prime.

And you're confident a 34 year old Konecny beats Angulo, Kirkland, Molina, Trout, and maybe Cotto?

Cotto!
I think the question is can Konecy beat Zaurbek Baysangurov tonight, I think he can as Konecny is much more compact and technical in his approach, whereas Baysangurov can jump in with wild hooks and expose himself to counters. It was Baysangurov strength and his opponents lack of conditioning that won him his last fight, Konecny always comes in good condition and will be equally as strong if not stronger. Konecny could win this on a late KO.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:26 AM   #19
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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Originally Posted by ardy View Post
I think the question is can Konecy beat Zaurbek Baysangurov tonight, I think he can as Konecny is much more compact and technical in his approach, whereas Baysangurov can jump in with wild hooks and expose himself to counters. It was Baysangurov strength and his opponents lack of conditioning that won him his last fight, Konecny always comes in good condition and will be equally as strong if not stronger. Konecny could win this on a late KO.
I think Konecny - while limited - is a better and stronger fighter (if less athletic and prone to movement) than Soro who Baysangurov fought on very even terms with and barely scraped by. I'd pick Konecny to grind Soro down to a stoppage inside ten.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:43 AM   #20
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
I think Konecny - while limited - is a better and stronger fighter (if less athletic and prone to movement) than Soro who Baysangurov fought on very even terms with and barely scraped by. I'd pick Konecny to grind Soro down to a stoppage inside ten.
I agree with most of what you are saying but I wouldn't use the word limited about describing Konecy, as he's very good at what he does. Boxing is all about levels and we can only judge him on that level he's boxing at, when someone schools him, then I will refer to his limitations at a certain level then.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:56 AM   #21
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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I agree with most of what you are saying but I wouldn't use the word limited about describing Konecy, as he's very good at what he does. Boxing is all about levels and we can only judge him on that level he's boxing at, when someone schools him, then I will refer to his limitations at a certain level then.
Yeah, maybe "lack of variation or dimension" is a better way of putting it than limited.

Some fighters do quite well and reach a high level without needing to excel at too many different things. Versatility isn't the only intangible that matters, and Konecny has plenty of other ones that do. (heart & will foremost among them)
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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Originally Posted by conraddobler View Post
(So when it comes to Canelo you're a strict Boxrec warrior, but with Lukas Konecny it's all your boxing judgment).

It's true, I haven't yet acquired the Konecny career DVD set yet (but Christmas is on the way), but I did watch the Piccirillo fight.

Are you saying the Piccirillo fight wasn't close? You're probably aware that Piccirillo knocked him down in the 9th and it was ruled a slip. Aside from that, I'd say Piccirillo controlled the last half of the fight, rather clearly, cutting up Konecny's face in the process. Definitely not a clear Konecny win, could have gone either way.

But it did reveal a tough but somewhat limited fighter who was outboxed for large stretches. And this was 6 years ago in his physical prime.

And you're confident a 34 year old Konecny beats Angulo, Kirkland, Molina, Trout, and maybe Cotto?

Cotto!
35:25 for this imaginary KD. Care to show me where Piccirillo landed a punch

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bf2UkDHZ1A[/ame]


I had it 8-4 116-111 Konecny because of his actual KD. The most generous you could possibly be to Piccirillo is 5 rounds, even if you somehow defied even that and gave him 6 rounds Konecny would still win due to the 10-8 round two from the KD. Reasonably close but utterly clear fight to score, giving it to Piccirillo was a robbery.

What does anything i said about Canelo have to do with Boxrec? I stated my opinion based on what i saw inside the ring aginst his opponents and the versions of them that he faced.

This below was my main sentiment which had to do with the perception of class differential

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
Didn't see this post, ya i pretty much agree with everything here.

Konecny vs Angulo/Kirkland would be amazing and i agree with the stylistic matchup you described for Trout/Molina fight. I just think Lukas isn't inept on the inside the way someone like Kirkland is, if you're taking the Molina approach Konecny wants to be in close and even if you're trying to smother him his short hooks, uppercuts, bodyshots mean you're still going to get hit when trying doing that. I think he's well suited to foil those tactics.

So many fans love jmw but the majority act like there's some huge class differential between some of these guys especially the North American based fighters.

Even Cotto, he put up a great performance against Floyd in losing, yes, but he really hasn't done anything at jmw. Mayorga coming off a 3 year retirement had a competitive fight with him but guys like Canelo, Lara, Konecny won't be able to compete?
I would favor Cotto to win a 8-4 / 7-5 in a competitive fight with alot of close rounds and great action.

Last edited by Vysotsky; 10-06-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

Looks like Baysangurov won the fight UD 119-109, 117-111, 118-110

Looks like a shutout for Baysangurov? Did anyone see that fight?

I thought it would be at least competitive?
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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Looks like Baysangurov won the fight UD 119-109, 117-111, 118-110

Looks like a shutout for Baysangurov? Did anyone see that fight?

I thought it would be at least competitive?
It was competitive.

VERY bad scores. IMO it was a robbery. I had it 116-112 Konecny.

Most people on ESB had it by a few points for Konecny. A couple had it for Baysangurov, but very close (like 115-113, or 115-114). A few had a draw.

Only the BoxNation commentators and the K2-bought judges saw it wide for Baysangurov. Nobody else in the rest of the world did.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

BN K2 bought too I wonder?
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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BN K2 bought too I wonder?
Just dumb.
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: Baysangurov/Konecny - Saturday - good fight

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Just dumb.
Most likely.
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