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Old 10-06-2012, 11:39 AM   #1
shommel
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Default sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

it seems that sonny has an edge on almost every opponent we put him against so how about sonny vs jack johnson both prime and johnson is not in there to play. he is focused and ready to compete to take sonny out in how ever many rounds it takes it..so whats the verdict sonny or jack? why and how and how long?
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

This would be a 'dull bout', with a complete lack of excitement.

After Sonny's lumbering arms got heavy in Round 7, Jack would peck, pose
and counter over the last 8-Rounds.

The bout has a 15-Round Draw written all over it.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

It probably would be pretty dull. Liston on the jab if he can keep reasonably busy for 15, Johnson with a late late surge if he can't.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

i don't think we know enough about Johnson to draw any conclusions. His films are few and grainy and hard to tell anything about.

People who saw him fight said that at his best, he simply couldn't be hit.

If true, a Liston swatting air is a frustrated Liston and subject to quit or take a dive.

I don't know how it would unfold.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

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Originally Posted by BillB View Post
If true, a Liston swatting air is a frustrated Liston and subject to quit or take a dive.
im holding it together...only just though.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by shommel View Post
it seems that sonny has an edge on almost every opponent we put him against so how about sonny vs jack johnson both prime and johnson is not in there to play. he is focused and ready to compete to take sonny out in how ever many rounds it takes it..so whats the verdict sonny or jack? why and how and how long?
The fulcrom here for me is, how Johnson deals with Liston's jab?
I will await more" focused "posters responses.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by shommel View Post
it seems that sonny has an edge on almost every opponent we put him against so how about sonny vs jack johnson both prime and johnson is not in there to play. he is focused and ready to compete to take sonny out in how ever many rounds it takes it..so whats the verdict sonny or jack? why and how and how long?
Johnson who was at his best up close had trouble with good jabbers and power hitters. To get up close Johnson would have to get past Liston's jab. I don't see it. And if Johnson gets up close he puts himself in the danger zone of Liston bombs.


Liston could fight inside or out, and had a very dangerous arsenal of hooks, jabs, crosses, and uppercuts. Those who engaged Liston in close quarters did not last long. For a power hitter, Liston was rather technical. Even on defense. Liston via KO, perhaps early if Johnson doesn't run.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Liston H2H, from what I've gathered from posters here, has the reach of Dhalsim, hits like the Hulk wearing a couple of Nintendo Power Gloves, and takes a punch as well as the Hoover Dam (likely because both have the skeletons of a couple dozen Chinemen reinforcing them).

Johnson would be lucky to last until the opening bell with such a haggered looking demi-God.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Don't know what you guys are smoking but no chance Liston beats Jack Johnson. By all accounts by those who saw him the best defense of any hwt champion. Master of blocking and the best at feinting. Johnsons jab was one of boxings best. Not a hitter like Jeffries or Dempsey but he could hit with either fist. Also Johnson was and s rated as ne of boxings best....Liston is not.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:42 AM   #10
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

I never could figure how people could compare fighters from Johnson's era to the more modern era. Styles were so much different to me from Johnson's era, but it is interesting trying to figure out how they match up. From what I've seen, Johnson looked liked a good boxer who could jab and move a bit, I think he would have been tough in any era. Maybe Johnson wins this by outboxing Sonny?
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:44 AM   #11
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Johnson who was at his best up close had trouble with good jabbers and power hitters. To get up close Johnson would have to get past Liston's jab. I don't see it. And if Johnson gets up close he puts himself in the danger zone of Liston bombs.


Liston could fight inside or out, and had a very dangerous arsenal of hooks, jabs, crosses, and uppercuts. Those who engaged Liston in close quarters did not last long. For a power hitter, Liston was rather technical. Even on defense. Liston via KO, perhaps early if Johnson doesn't run.

In which fights of Johnson's do you base your opinion that he had trouble with jabbers?
A meaningless 6 rounds no dec with O Brien? A fight by the way, which no one living has seen,and about which there are many conflicting reports.

Johnson beat many good jabbers

Butler
Felix
Jeannette
Martin
Willard
For example.
Power hitters? Yeah, going nearly 15 years without being kod sure indicates that.

Which fights did Johnson run in?

Liston had trouble with fast, shifty, defensive boxers,because he had slow feet. Johnson epitomises that description.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:00 AM   #12
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by shommel View Post
it seems that sonny has an edge on almost every opponent we put him against so how about sonny vs jack johnson both prime and johnson is not in there to play. he is focused and ready to compete to take sonny out in how ever many rounds it takes it..so whats the verdict sonny or jack? why and how and how long?
Johnson was a counter puncher who was in the heyday of boxing and had access to superior trainers, he could use all the old timer skills to disarm listons power until liston was too tired, Liston would quit the fight in the 21st round

Seriously though this fight would never happen because Johnson had a reputation of dodging black fighters, he wouldn't fight little bitty Sam Langford from Canada at 5'7 and he is 6'1 I doubt he is going to give a shot to a hulking monster like Liston.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:43 AM   #13
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanday View Post
Johnson was a counter puncher who was in the heyday of boxing and had access to superior trainers, he could use all the old timer skills to disarm listons power until liston was too tired, Liston would quit the fight in the 21st round

Seriously though this fight would never happen because Johnson had a reputation of dodging black fighters, he wouldn't fight little bitty Sam Langford from Canada at 5'7 and he is 6'1 I doubt he is going to give a shot to a hulking monster like Liston.

You are quite right, Johnson never fought a black fighter.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]This guy is just suntanned.Notice how small he is too.

This guy is tanned too.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
And this one.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

And this one.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Him too.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]








ps. Johnson was 6'' .25"
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:48 AM   #14
Mendoza
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
In which fights of Johnson's do you base your opinion that he had trouble with jabbers?
A meaningless 6 rounds no dec with O Brien? A fight by the way, which no one living has seen,and about which there are many conflicting reports.

Johnson beat many good jabbers

Butler
Felix
Jeannette
Martin
Willard
For example.
Power hitters? Yeah, going nearly 15 years without being kod sure indicates that.

Which fights did Johnson run in?

Liston had trouble with fast, shifty, defensive boxers,because he had slow feet. Johnson epitomises that description.

There you go again.....First off no one living has seen most of the Johnson fights you are alluding to. You try to diminish the O'Brien match by saying no one alive has seen it ( gee I wonder why ) then list other fights not on video as some proof for Johnson dealing with good jabbers? Do you realize the double standards you create?

The only filmed one listed is Willard. As slow and clumsy as he was, Willard landed his share on the outside in the flimed rounds. Its a given that Liston would do much better. Willard a good jabber, you say? Wow.


How is the O'Brien fight meaningless? Johnson was in his prime and the new champion. O'brien's jab got to Johnson, and multiple newspapers will tell you this.


Johnson wasn't close Ali in movement skills, nor did he have the reach or chin to deal with Liston as Ali did. In this match Johnson is meat.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:55 AM   #15
Mendoza
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanday View Post
Johnson was a counter puncher who was in the heyday of boxing and had access to superior trainers, he could use all the old timer skills to disarm listons power until liston was too tired, Liston would quit the fight in the 21st round

Seriously though this fight would never happen because Johnson had a reputation of dodging black fighters, he wouldn't fight little bitty Sam Langford from Canada at 5'7 and he is 6'1 I doubt he is going to give a shot to a hulking monster like Liston.
The inconvenient truth for some is Johnson skirted the best black challengers as the lineal champion. He probably drew the color line against top rated balcks fighter more than any other champion in history.


No title matches were given to Sam McVey, Joe Jeannette, or Sam Langford from 1908-1915. Gee I wonder why. Jeanette said it best. " When Johnson became champion he forgot his old friends and drew the color line against this own people. " Did Johnson seek out Wills post 1915? I tend to doubt it. Heck, he didn't even re-match Jim Battling Johnson, who according to some reports was the better in the 1913 match, and had Johnson hurt and ready to go.
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