Has Jon Jones quite reached his peak yet, or is he still pre-prime?

[chimba]

Originally Posted by Rob_Floyd

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_as...shogun-gif.gif
http://ssreporters.files.wordpress.c...if?w=320&h=180

Shoguns a sloppy striker. He choked Machida out. Try that with Anderson and his aura would end violently.

[Rob_Floyd]

Shogun is still considered one of the better strikers in the division.

Choking Anderson against the cage seems like a fine strategy. But the gif was more to highlight the KD.

[achillesthegreat]

No, I think his BJJ and boxing will get better. I think even his wrestling could get better. When he gets people down he looks devastating so people fail to recognise that his takedown attempts fail. I think in time he'll get better and picking his TD attempts, when to trip, when to throw etc Very much like GSP who times them very well.

[latineg]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Jones has just turned 25, and he appears noticeably more solid and physically stronger than he did when he started making noise against the likes of Vera and Bader. And his technique is still loose, but it's definitely tighter than it was a couple of years ago.

Every fighter ages differently at every stage of their careers. But most heavier fighters who don't heavily rely on explosive speed and superior reflexes tend to have their best fighting years around the age of 26-32, give or take. Most HW and LHW champions are aroundabout this age, if not a little older.

In your opinion, has Jones fully entered his prime years, or is there enough physical and technical improvement available to him that he can still be considered (slightly) green or pre-prime?

yes slightly pre-prime for sure

now wether wipes out on a motor bike ala Frank Mir or whatever then maybe this is his prime, however, i think he still can get better

[thejokerswild]

He might be prime right now and lose then come back for a second prime. It's only early days for him. Physically insane for a 25 year old. I've noticed his physique is looking bigger now. Crazy that he makes weight

[Thom]

Originally Posted by Rob_Floyd

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_as...shogun-gif.gif
http://ssreporters.files.wordpress.c...if?w=320&h=180

http://www.abload.de/img/untitled-9afkkz.gif

[Thom]

Originally Posted by chimba

Shoguns a sloppy striker. He choked Machida out. Try that with Anderson and his aura would end violently.

He set up the TD that he got in that round with a clean right hand to Machida's jaw, and he dropped hurt him again with a punch to set up the choke. Machida frustrated him in the first round, but he adjusted. People claim that Jones was "exposed" in the fight, but that's laughable. Machida is a much more experienced and polished striker who'd completely humiliated most of his opponents not named Mauricio "sloppy" Rua standing.

Yeah, Jones might get put to sleep if he gets careless with Anderson, but the same goes for just about every other fucking fighter in the UFC. I don't see how that's a knock on Jones. Anderson has made plenty of guys lose in ways that we've never seen before or since.

The notion that he'll never be able to handle "elite strikers" is ridiculous. He's already stood toe-to-toe with the best guys at 205.


It's also laughable to claim that he's already peaked. Jones has only been training MMA for about four and a half years. He's only been with a legit camp for three. Before he went to Jackson's, he was getting most of his striking tips from Youtube videos. He's got a lot room for improvement considering his natural aptitude for MMA. I think that we are going to his striking and BJJ skills improve markedly. Shit, the guy admittedly doesn't train BJJ that often, yet he's submitted two black belts.

[chimba]

Originally Posted by Thom

He set up the TD that he got in that round with a clean right hand to Machida's jaw, and he dropped hurt him again with a punch to set up the choke. Machida frustrated him in the first round, but he adjusted. People claim that Jones was "exposed" in the fight, but that's laughable. Machida is a much more experienced and polished striker who'd completely humiliated most of his opponents not named Mauricio "sloppy" Rua standing.

Yeah, Jones might get put to sleep if he gets careless with Anderson, but the same goes for just about every other fucking fighter in the UFC. I don't see how that's a knock on Jones. Anderson has made plenty of guys lose in ways that we've never seen before or since.

The notion that he'll never be able to handle "elite strikers" is ridiculous. He's already stood toe-to-toe with the best guys at 205.


It's also laughable to claim that he's already peaked. Jones has only been training MMA for about four and a half years. He's only been with a legit camp for three. Before he went to Jackson's, he was getting most of his striking tips from Youtube videos. He's got a lot room for improvement considering his natural aptitude for MMA. I think that we are going to his striking and BJJ skills improve markedly. Shit, the guy admittedly doesn't train BJJ that often, yet he's submitted two black belts.

Im not one who said He was exposed I was actually very impressed with the way He almost killed him. But I have to be realistic here, His stand up is going to be like the way it is now and not much more improvement. Most is just due to his body type. Hes got long limbs and I just cant see him throwing crisp jabs or 1-2 combos. You'll see some spinning elbows and kicks but I cannot see Jones boxing improved. This is why I think he will be at a disadvantage to Silva IF He decides to stand up with him. Everything He does standing up, Silva does better and Silva is pretty long himself.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by chimba

Im not one who said He was exposed I was actually very impressed with the way He almost killed him. But I have to be realistic here, His stand up is going to be like the way it is now and not much more improvement. Most is just due to his body type. Hes got long limbs and I just cant see him throwing crisp jabs or 1-2 combos. You'll see some spinning elbows and kicks but I cannot see Jones boxing improved. This is why I think he will be at a disadvantage to Silva IF He decides to stand up with him. Everything He does standing up, Silva does better and Silva is pretty long himself.

Yeah but you could equally talk about Silva being vulnerable to a Jones-level wrestler.

You are comparing the standup of a still pretty raw version of Jones, which is (arguably) the worst element of his game, with the best striker ever to compete in the UFC.

Jones figured Machida's style out quickly and beat him easily, (and he did "figure him out" as opposed to "overwhelm him", and he straight up beat the shit out of Shogun.

If he runs into an Anderson-level striker, then that striker had better have BJ Penn-level takedown defence.

But as it stands, Jones has fought most of the top guys in his division and has not yet been outclassed or even looked uncomfortable on his feet. In my book, after 5 title fight wins, that makes his standup good enough that it's a long way short of a real weakness in his game. It's just not as ridiculously dominant as his top control and gnp.

[chimba]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Yeah but you could equally talk about Silva being vulnerable to a Jones-level wrestler.

You are comparing the standup of a still pretty raw version of Jones, which is (arguably) the worst element of his game, with the best striker ever to compete in the UFC.

Jones figured Machida's style out quickly and beat him easily, (and he did "figure him out" as opposed to "overwhelm him", and he straight up beat the shit out of Shogun.

If he runs into an Anderson-level striker, then that striker had better have BJ Penn-level takedown defence.

But as it stands, Jones has fought most of the top guys in his division and has not yet been outclassed or even looked uncomfortable on his feet. In my book, after 5 title fight wins, that makes his standup good enough that it's a long way short of a real weakness in his game. It's just not as ridiculously dominant as his top control and gnp.

You missed the big IF I wrote. And Im not too sure if He can keep Anderson down for a prolonged period. I am now convinced that Silva was injured against Chael the first time. He can improve a little but he would never ever come close to Anderson level striking.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by chimba

You missed the big IF I wrote. And Im not too sure if He can keep Anderson down for a prolonged period. I am now convinced that Silva was injured against Chael the first time. He can improve a little but he would never ever come close to Anderson level striking.

No I get you. And I agree that Jones' standup is never going to reach Anderson level.

But just because it won't get to Anderson level, doesn't mean it can't get markedly better than it currently is. And it's already been shown to be more than good enough to deal with the best strikers at 205.

And for the record, I agree that Sonnen faced the worst possible version of Anderson. After watching "Like Water", Anderson was clearly nowhere near peak fighting form, either physically or mentally.

[UnleashtheFURY]

Originally Posted by chimba

Shoguns a sloppy striker. He choked Machida out. Try that with Anderson and his aura would end violently.

And Jones isn't?

[Thom]

Originally Posted by chimba

You missed the big IF I wrote. And Im not too sure if He can keep Anderson down for a prolonged period. I am now convinced that Silva was injured against Chael the first time. He can improve a little but he would never ever come close to Anderson level striking.

Again. Is this supposed to be some sort of slight against Jones? Who is on Anderson's level in MMA?


BTW was Anderson injured in the first round of his fight against Henderson? If Hendo and Chael can smother him like that, Jones can do much worse. Silva has a problem with wrestlers. That's not to say that Silva doesn't have a very good chance at winning. All that he needs is one opening to end the fight, but Jones is an extremely shitty match up for him. It's why Silva and his team want nothing to do with the fight. To pretend otherwise is silly.

[latineg]

this turned into a Anderson/Jones thread now, personally i see Jones demolishing Anderson. I dont see Jones forcing it to the ground and only going when its available. Jones is fast.

[EL BULLY]

Jones would beat Anderson easily. If Sonnen can lay on top of Anderson for 6 rounds Jones sure as hell can. But Jones always does damage from every single position on top. Not only has Jones got size on his side but I think his skill set is the exact blue print to give Anderson nightmares.