Haye v Dempsey

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by rusak

At the higher level of Willard and Firpo? You gotta be kidding.

I was thinking more Gibbons, Miske and Sharkey. All 3 definitely better than anyone Haye beat.

Fulton is hard to gauge, I'd probably put him on a level with Ruiz. Chisora might end up being something good but right now it's hard to rate him highly (despite me thinking he's only lost in his prime condition to Vitali and Haye)

[lufcrazy]

I don't think either man can take the other's power. I really don't.

Haye is bigger and quicker but Dempsey has beaten better opposition.

Compare how the two fared with the giant of their era and it's hard for me to justify Haye being the better boxer but I think he has got a stylistic edge here.

One thing's for sure, if Jack comes in like he did against Fulton he'll get ktfo. If he fights like he against Willard, cautiously closing the distance and finishing off with brutality, I say it's almost an even money fight.

Jack was hungrier, Haye often didn't put the effort in during his career and he's somewhat of an underachiever legacy wise despite being an over achiever financial wise.

I make Jack a slight favourite, not enough for me to put any money on. 60-40.

[McGrain]

But you're assuming Haye will fight aggressively, or seem to be. Why won't Haye just fight like he did against Valuev or Wlad? He can Firpo Dempsey, sure, but he's not some super-slick defensive specialist, if he tries any of that pissing about here, and form tells me he should, he would just get his head taken off.

Haye has shown nothing to me that suggests he would box anything but fearfully against Dempsey. Stretchered out.

[Azzer85]

It would be a a mini war

Points to consider, Haye does have some serious power, i mean he made Valuev do the chicken dance. The closest thing Haye fought to Dempsey, was Chisora in terms of style. Chisora however fights at a very slow pace and throws a couple of hayemakers now and then

Now Chisora, had Haye puffing and blowing after about 4-5 rounds, Dempsey, throws a lot more than Chisora does and Chisora was trying to end the fight with one punch, something which he doesnt even have.

If Dempsey can take Hayes punch, i see Dempsey pressuring and stopping a gassing Haye.

Its basically a quick starting hard hitting pressure fighter against a lazy 1-2 counter puncher with stamina issues.

Dempsey would fight at a furious pace which would make Haye comfortable, a pace which Haye has never experienced, a lot of the guys he has fought, have been slow. Valuev, Ruiz, Chisora etc, these guys let Haye get away with his whole hands down routine. I cant imagine a guy like Dempsey or Tyson letting Haye get away witht hat

[mr. magoo]

The almighty Chuck Wepner beats them both..

[Run It]

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by McGrain

But you're assuming Haye will fight aggressively, or seem to be. Why won't Haye just fight like he did against Valuev or Wlad? He can Firpo Dempsey, sure, but he's not some super-slick defensive specialist, if he tries any of that pissing about here, and form tells me he should, he would just get his head taken off.

Haye has shown nothing to me that suggests he would box anything but fearfully against Dempsey. Stretchered out.

they were giants compared to Haye, huge size, reach and weight advantage.

Dempsey is the smaller man in ever measure, Haye has never fought scared against a smaller man.

I'm assuming it'll be like Enzo - Haye. With the two pretending to box behind a jab for a bit until one catches the other and it escalates into war until one man drops.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Yeah some of these posters are pathetic at times. It's like they think Dempsey is so amazing that it's a crime to match him up with champions who came after him.

i'll be equally dismissive: is haye that much worse than fireman jim flynn or morbidly obese willie meehan? no he's not.

on a styles basis, strengths/weaknesses basis, i'll pick dempsey. it's not because dempsey is that much better, that much more evolved...just think he'd win this fight.

[Minotauro]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Not seen you for a bit.

Yeah I make the odd apperance now and then.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Nightcrawler

i'll be equally dismissive: is haye that much worse than fireman jim flynn or morbidly obese willie meehan? no he's not.

on a styles basis, strengths/weaknesses basis, i'll pick dempsey. it's not because dempsey is that much better, that much more evolved...just think he'd win this fight.

yeah I see it devolving into a shootout and Jack is just that bit more edgy and hungry that I think he'll get off first and weather a storm better.

[Ricky42791]

Dempsey is cut from a different cloth, Do you really think haye could handle a 1919 dempsey swarming all over him punishing the body with hooks before coming upstairs to the head? Dempsey is too feral too ferocious for a joker like haye. Do you think Dempsey would of called out the heavyweight champion and then when he finally got his shot ran like a coward and falling to his knees every round without getting hit? THEN has the audacity to blame his pathetic performance on his 'pinky toe' lol Dempsey kept coming at Bill Brennan when his ear was hanging on by a thread. Haye is a good fighter but he doesn't have the heart and guts of Dempsey and he is chinny.

Dempsey KO6 Haye

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Ricky42791

Dempsey is cut from a different cloth, Do you really think haye could handle a 1919 dempsey swarming all over him punishing the body with hooks before coming upstairs to the head? Dempsey is too feral too ferocious for a joker like haye. Do you think Dempsey would of called out the heavyweight champion and then when he finally got his shot ran like a coward and falling to his knees every round without getting hit? THEN has the audacity to blame his pathetic performance on his 'pinky toe' lol Dempsey kept coming at Bill Brennan when his ear was hanging on by a thread. Haye is a good fighter but he doesn't have the heart and guts of Dempsey and he is chinny.

Dempsey KO6 Haye

Dempsey's chin is just as shaky as Haye's imo.

[ron u.k.]

Dempsey was a proper fighter,a fighter with substance,Haye to me just plays at the game,takes the easy route.
I don't buy all this that Haye's more athletic and faster than Dempsey,I don't see that at all.
I think Dempsey's work rate and intensity would be too much for Haye and he'd take a gassed Haye out late

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by ron u.k.

Dempsey was a proper fighter,a fighter with substance,Haye to me just plays at the game,takes the easy route.
I don't buy all this that Haye's more athletic and faster than Dempsey,I don't see that at all.
I think Dempsey's work rate and intensity would be too much for Haye and he'd take a gassed Haye out late

Who looks quicker and more athletic to you on film?

[ron u.k.]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Who looks quicker and more athletic to you on film?

Well regarding footwork Dempsey.Haye simply isn't quick on his feet.If you look at Dempsey for a swarmer he was unusual, he was always on his toes.
Handspeed wise it's a bit difficult to tell because of the old newsreel images of Dempsey,but I think he had pretty good handspeed he certainly wasn't slow,although Haye would probably have an edge in that department.