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Old 10-08-2012, 03:45 PM   #76
LittleRed
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

Floyd is more skilled than Luis Manuel Rodriguez. This is a fact. I think it might be in the Bible.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:47 PM   #77
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

Magna has hit the nail on the head. In terms of longevity, I wonder if modern science has aided fighters to fight longer on then before. That, and the fact that fighters don't fight quite as often and thus don't get worked out. Moore had close to 200 fights. Hopkins has less than 70 I think. Hopkins is nearly 50 and capable of schooling fighters that clearly lack craft (Pascal). Moore was 45 by the time of the Clay fight. How much of a discrepancy in craft was there during Moore's LHW reign than Hopkins? Is it just a case of Moore wearing down quicker because of the amount of fights he had. Hopkins also gets the benefit of modern science. There are weak points in virtually all eras, and at varies division by division. I would agree with the consensus that things appear to be clearly getting worse, though.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:48 PM   #78
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

It depends when you're talking about. 40's to 90's are at a similar skill level. The 30's and the 00's are a step below overall. The 20's and before fighters were absolute dog****e
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:53 PM   #79
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

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Floyd is more skilled than Luis Manuel Rodriguez. This is a fact. I think it might be in the Bible.
Come on now...
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:59 PM   #80
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

I think it has more to do with schooling. Fighters were schooled in all dimensions of fighting before they became pros. The process of teaching a fighter was more complex. The sport has become so diluted with incompetent trainers and techniques that its very difficult to even name a fighter who is complete anymore and thats why in the last couple decades youve seen fighters who should have no buisness even fighting anymore, still beating young, supposedly prime "champions"
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:02 PM   #81
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

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Come on now...
Its true Flea. There is no.blueprint and all that ****.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:10 PM   #82
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Its true Flea. There is no.blueprint and all that ****.
Why won't you and Lester stop trying to wind me up?!?
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:51 PM   #83
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

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Joe Louis' "Bum of the month club"?
If you hold the title for 11 years I'd imagine your run out of real opponents. It would not surprise me if half of those bums would beat the bums fighting today, because those bums back then were probably more desperate for it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:08 PM   #84
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

old time fighters often had more than one "ring name".

Dives occurred far more regularly in the old times.

I don't think the boxing commissions were as stringent about keeping unqualified fighters out of the ring. I believe there were several one-eyed fighters thumping around boxing rings. That simply would not happen today.

In order to get a state comparable to the good ol' days, we need to; racially segragate boxing, prohibit boxers from the former USSR and Cuba from competing in the professional boxing game, have some mafiosos control the rankings and have a single promoter monopoly whole divisions with his fighters.

Also, these newer boxers need to quit using their lefts so much and quit moving laterally so much. They need to lunge in at their opponents like they used to do in the old days.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:13 PM   #85
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Cuban boxers are prohibited from competing in the pro' game. If anything the old timers had it right in that respect, 'til the revolution.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:16 PM   #86
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

There is another issue here.

At any given point of time, it is statisticaly unlikley that the best fighter in the history of a given weight class will be active.

So obviously there are going to be more great fighters who can be termed "old timers", than great fighters who are curently active.

Fighters active at the moment include Pacquio, Mayweather, Ward and Klitschko junior.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:16 PM   #87
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

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I think 24 hour weigh in's actually encourage fighters to try and shed more weight. Spending less time on honing their skills.
I agree..It should encourage fighters
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:21 PM   #88
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Magna has hit the nail on the head. In terms of longevity, I wonder if modern science has aided fighters to fight longer on then before. That, and the fact that fighters don't fight quite as often and thus don't get worked out. Moore had close to 200 fights. Hopkins has less than 70 I think. Hopkins is nearly 50 and capable of schooling fighters that clearly lack craft (Pascal). Moore was 45 by the time of the Clay fight. How much of a discrepancy in craft was there during Moore's LHW reign than Hopkins? Is it just a case of Moore wearing down quicker because of the amount of fights he had. Hopkins also gets the benefit of modern science. There are weak points in virtually all eras, and at varies division by division. I would agree with the consensus that things appear to be clearly getting worse, though.
hopkins also didnt have to fight cassius clay
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #89
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Default Re: How were old timers so good?

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it's an interesting take flea. better or worse, two of my favourites at the moment are andre ward and adrien broner. ward has proven himself at the top level, broner hasn't come close.

what are your thoughts on them? styles, skills, pure athletes?
broner with his legs as wide as they are will have a lot of problems with guys who can move around the ring, and he looks and waits for a perfect shot - he will lose a lot of rounds that way. one day he will lose one round too many that way
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:34 PM   #90
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H, NOT TRUE..In the 1940s {my era growing up] there were a tremendous amount of amateurs and GOLDEN GLOVE bouts...For example in the GG in MSG they HAD to have THREE rings operating at the same time. Ray Robinson was a product of the Golden Gloves bouts in NY...My dad in the early 1920s boxed in smokers and other non pro bouts...He would tell me in NYC on every block it seemed there was a pro boxer...Tough times breed tough men. In the GG all of us boxed with NO headgear, mini mouthpieces.
Today I cannot watch the amateurs in the Olympic bouts with the headgear, the referee admonishing boxers for the slightest "infraction", not allowing infighting etc...A different game today than in the old days...In the 1940s to get a main event bout at MSG, you needed 45 or so bouts,and more to headline a card...There were of course only 8 weight classes, and fighters learned to cope with boxing guys weighing in some cases 10 pounds o r more...And in NYC area for example there was at least ONE
pro card EVERY NIGHT of the week except Sunday...Fighting so often boxers learned from their experiences and hardened them....To prove my point I can cite a list of the top fighters of the 40s in each class, and compare them to todays top fighters...To be the best of a rich pool of fighters ,makes the greater fighter than a much smaller pool...
My understanding is there are less am weight classes now for men because they had to shrink the number to allow women time to compete in london
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