Cleveland Williams vs Jerry Quarry

[SuzieQ49]

Originally Posted by Seamus

If I were more swayed by conjecture than fact I could agree with you, but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Ok, but do you agree Jerry Quarry would have done no better than 1-3 vs the likes of a prime Sonny Liston 2x, prime eddie machen, and prime ernie terrell 2x?

[bodhi]

Quarry before round 8.

Williams, all flash, little substance.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Ok, but do you agree Jerry Quarry would have done no better than 1-3 vs the likes of a prime Sonny Liston 2x, prime eddie machen, and prime ernie terrell 2x?

No, I do not agree, so long as it is a prime, un-injured Quarry.

[SuzieQ49]

Originally Posted by Seamus

No, I do not agree, so long as it is a prime, un-injured Quarry.

Ahh so making excuses now for Jerry boy?

Sonny Liston 2x: I assume we can both agree Liston twice beats Jerry, am I correct? I shouldn't even have to bother to defend my position here

Ernie Terrell 2x- What makes you think Quarry(who has a history of getting troubled by boxers) could take 2 in a row against one of the tallest, most difficult boxers of the era? Quarry would get handled by that jab and outboxed in at least 1 of there fights


Eddie Machen- Considering Quarry lost to a nearly washed up Eddie Machen in 1966, let's chalk it up that Quarry simply would always have huge problems with Eddie Machen. Considering Machen was far better in the late 1950s than in 1966, I say we give Eddie the edge here.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Only Liston, Machen and Terrell would fight him it seems. He lost a brawl to Liston, drew with Machen and went 1-1 with Terrell perhaps deserving 2-0

Some fighters don't get the chance to prove themselves and you have to judge them with your own eyes

Beating Terrell is as good as beating the men Quarry beat



He was also still a 20yo, Quarry was 21 against a past prime Machen

Big Cat was 8 days short of his 21st Birthday, Quarry was a month over it...Big Cat had 32 fights Quarry 20 when they lost to these men and Machen was 33, Satterfield 32...picking hairs huh

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Ahh so making excuses now for Jerry boy?

Sonny Liston 2x: I assume we can both agree Liston twice beats Jerry, am I correct? I shouldn't even have to bother to defend my position here

Ernie Terrell 2x- What makes you think Quarry(who has a history of getting troubled by boxers) could take 2 in a row against one of the tallest, most difficult boxers of the era? Quarry would get handled by that jab and outboxed in at least 1 of there fights


Eddie Machen- Considering Quarry lost to a nearly washed up Eddie Machen in 1966, let's chalk it up that Quarry simply would always have huge problems with Eddie Machen. Considering Machen was far better in the late 1950s than in 1966, I say we give Eddie the edge here.

Quarry's best wins were after 1970 when he started to mature even though he beat Mathias,Thad Spencer and Floyd Patterson after he lost the close fight to Machen (an old pro at 33) but after 1970 Quarry beat Bodell,Doyle,Foster,Middleton,Nuemann,Lyle,Shavers and had a far deeper resume than big cat...even a shot Quarry at the end of his career Ko'd Lorenzo Zanon (who got a title shot with Holmes 2 1/2 years later.

[mr. magoo]

I don't think there's any getting around the fact that Quarry had better wins. You can make all the arguments you want about Williams beating him on styles or justifying either man's defeats on the basis of age, inexperienc, gun shot wounds, whatever.... But if better wins are what we're talking about, then that goes to Quarry hands down.

[SuzieQ49]

Quarry never beat a big man who could punch AND had top speed. Williams would be a horse of a different color.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Quarry never beat a big man who could punch AND had top speed. Williams would be a horse of a different color.

I disagree Mac Foster had good hand speed and power for a 6'3 210 guy and Lyle got slow as he aged but he had decent speed when he faced Jerry

Williams never beat a puncher of Quarry magnitude, Quarry had a good set of whiskers and it nulified a lot of punchers...Ali's speed troubled him but we are not seeing any of that from Big Cat.