Haye v Dempsey

[lufcrazy]

Mormeck and Enzo were clearly dangerous opponents.

Haye got dominated by a man 3 stone heavier, he looked shit in it. some would rightly say pitiful in the way he was completely negated by a man clearly much quicker and accurate than he'd anticipated.

I don't see how that can translate to a fight with Jack who is, in every measure, the smaller man.

[Ricky42791]

I'm saying he doesnt have the fighting heart and guts of Dempsey honestly. And anyone who thinks haye's chin is as good as dempsey's is just delusional. Dempsey weighed around 185 when he fought Willard they announced him of being heavier than he really was. Willard was 245 pounds outweighed Dempsey by 60 pounds im not saying that willard is in the class of Klitchko but he didnt run from the heavyweight champion ofthe world and complain about his pinky toe, I am honestly suprised this forum has gone on this long

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Ricky42791

I'm saying he doesnt have the fighting heart and guts of Dempsey honestly. And anyone who thinks haye's chin is as good as dempsey's is just delusional. Dempsey weighed around 185 when he fought Willard they announced him of being heavier than he really was. Willard was 245 pounds outweighed Dempsey by 60 pounds im not saying that willard is in the class of Klitchko but he didnt run from the heavyweight champion ofthe world and complain about his pinky toe, I am honestly suprised this forum has gone on this long

Haye was never sparked in one. I see zero reason to assume Dempsey has a greater chin.

I agree Dempsey is a tougher operator, that's the edge with which I pick him here.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Mormeck and Enzo were clearly dangerous opponents.

And I didn't say they weren't.

Haye got dominated by a man 3 stone heavier, he looked shit in it. some would rightly say pitiful in the way he was completely negated by a man clearly much quicker and accurate than he'd anticipated.

I don't see how that can translate to a fight with Jack who is, in every measure, the smaller man.

You don't see how Haye's total inability to compete with his only elite opponent on any level, that he didn't even try to win might not be relevant in his competing with another elite opponent?


Haye didn't just lose - he shat his pants and gave up on trying to win. Immediately. He offered almost nothing. He knew he was being beaten out of sight - and he didn't do anything. It's extraordinary, really, that people still think of him highly enough to make these type of fights. But I suppose he's fast and looks the part. He might be competitive with ATG heavies, but I personally don't see it that way.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by McGrain

And I didn't say they weren't.



You don't see how Haye's total inability to compete with his only elite opponent on any level, that he didn't even try to win might not be relevant in his competing with another elite opponent?


Haye didn't just lose - he shat his pants and gave up on trying to win. Immediately. He offered almost nothing. He knew he was being beaten out of sight - and he didn't do anything. It's extraordinary, really, that people still think of him highly enough to make these type of fights. But I suppose he's fast and looks the part. He might be competitive with ATG heavies, but I personally don't see it that way.

I don't see it as relevant because there's no comparison between Wlad and Dempsey that I can see as relevant.

[McGrain]

The comparison is quality.

Haye trades primarily upon his physical capabilities. He has used them to beat every opponent he has ever met at world level. When he met an opponent who he could not dominate in this way he produced nothing. I don't mean figuratively, I mean literally.

A total absence of impact of any description upon the only opponent he wasn't able to dominate with athleticism did not see him beaten - it saw him rendered absolutely impotent. He showed zero ring iq - not figuratively, literally - no aggression - not figuratively, literally - and no heart.

Fighters like that don't beat elite fighters. Doesn't happen.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by McGrain

The comparison is quality.

Haye trades primarily upon his physical capabilities. He has used them to beat every opponent he has ever met at world level. When he met an opponent who he could not dominate in this way he produced nothing. I don't mean figuratively, I mean literally.

A total absence of impact of any description upon the only opponent he wasn't able to dominate with athleticism did not see him beaten - it saw him rendered absolutely impotent. He showed zero ring iq - not figuratively, literally - no aggression - not figuratively, literally - and no heart.

Fighters like that don't beat elite fighters. Doesn't happen.

Yes but the quality of one man being a stone lighter and one man being 3 stone heavier is totally different.

Findi9ng oneself impotent against Wlad does not, to me atleast, translate to fiding oneself impotent against Dempsey.

[McGrain]

Indeed they are different, but the principle remains the same. Size is the same as any other factor, something to be overcome. The idea that Haye completely froze and offered absolutely nothing because Wladimir is bigger is not something I can believe.

I see nothing to suggest that Haye's chances would be better than Peter's or Ibragimov's. Haye isn't shot yet, and there's a fight out there that would make me think differently, perhaps, if he took it, but right now he's a never-was, and amongst Wlad's most pitiful challengers.

Ain't picking no never-was to beat Jack Dempsey.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Indeed they are different, but the principle remains the same. Size is the same as any other factor, something to be overcome. The idea that Haye completely froze and offered absolutely nothing because Wladimir is bigger is not something I can believe.

I see nothing to suggest that Haye's chances would be better than Peter's or Ibragimov's. Haye isn't shot yet, and there's a fight out there that would make me think differently, perhaps, if he took it, but right now he's a never-was, and amongst Wlad's most pitiful challengers.

Ain't picking no never-was to beat Jack Dempsey.

That's the difference then. I do believe it. He was against a man not only his superior, but also 3 stone heavier and 5 inches taller. He knew he had no chance and wanted to just survive.

I don't think he's a never was though, he's an undisputed CW champion who couldn't handle the step up in weight.

Maybe he'll get a fight with Vitali (I'd expect him to win if he did) and that would lead to a rematch to Wlad (I'd expect him to look equally as shit) but all that relies on the success of Vitali's political campaign.

I don't pick Haye to beat Demspey neither. Just for different reasons.

[MagnaNasakki]

Haye gives Dempsey fits early, but the second he makes a mistake with that right hand, and he would, Jack would find pay dirt, change Haye's soul, then end him.

Being finished by a fighter like Dempsey makes a man like David Haye change professions.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by McGrain

And I didn't say they weren't.



You don't see how Haye's total inability to compete with his only elite opponent on any level, that he didn't even try to win might not be relevant in his competing with another elite opponent?


Haye didn't just lose - he shat his pants and gave up on trying to win. Immediately. He offered almost nothing. He knew he was being beaten out of sight - and he didn't do anything. It's extraordinary, really, that people still think of him highly enough to make these type of fights. But I suppose he's fast and looks the part. He might be competitive with ATG heavies, but I personally don't see it that way.

I agree with every single word.

You might not agree with this but his performance against Valuev was everything I hate about boxing. Apart from the 12th round, briefly.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

That's the difference then. I do believe it. He was against a man not only his superior, but also 3 stone heavier and 5 inches taller. He knew he had no chance and wanted to just survive.

I don't think he's a never was though, he's an undisputed CW champion who couldn't handle the step up in weight.

Maybe he'll get a fight with Vitali (I'd expect him to win if he did) and that would lead to a rematch to Wlad (I'd expect him to look equally as shit) but all that relies on the success of Vitali's political campaign.

I don't pick Haye to beat Demspey neither. Just for different reasons.

Yuck.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Yuck.

it's true. Wlad was just miles better and he couldn't handle it, plus there's the fact that Wlad is better (imo) p4p than Haye anyways.

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

it's true. Wlad was just miles better and he couldn't handle it, plus there's the fact that Wlad is better (imo) p4p than Haye anyways.

Haye was boxing in the first four rounds. Throwing, moving, feinting, looking.

Wlad connects hard twice in the 5th, Haye gave up. It seems borderline obvious he knew he couldn't handle the power, and that if he wanted to avoid getting pancaked, he had to worry about defense first.

Shameful effort. Try to win, always. If you take a right hand that is just too heavy, and you have no interest in continuing, take a knee. Is your toe hurting you? Retire on the damn stool. Don't stay in the fight and not try to win.

My first coach always told me, earn your damn paycheck.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Haye was boxing in the first four rounds. Throwing, moving, feinting, looking.

Wlad connects hard twice in the 5th, Haye gave up. It seems borderline obvious he knew he couldn't handle the power, and that if he wanted to avoid getting pancaked, he had to worry about defense first.

Shameful effort. Try to win, always. If you take a right hand that is just too heavy, and you have no interest in continuing, take a knee. Is your toe hurting you? Retire on the damn stool. Don't stay in the fight and not try to win.

My first coach always told me, earn your damn paycheck.

I agree. he got dominated. he tried to survive.