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Old 10-14-2012, 06:56 AM   #46
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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I find it amusing that Jones didn't fight any of the 3 super punchers in this thread.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:43 AM   #47
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
You do know that Douglas dived in the Holyfield fight, right?
Not exactly, it was a perfect right hand counter that landed flush on Douglas' chin. Douglas was out of it. He might have been able to get up, but he would have been finished off.

Who's the bigger puncher, Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum?



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I can't see how that is relevant

Seriously!?
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:53 AM   #48
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Not exactly, it was a perfect right hand counter that landed flush on Douglas' chin. Douglas was out of it. He might have been able to get up, but he would have been finished off.
What fight are you talking about?

Douglas flopped to the floor and seemed more concerned about having a bleeding nose than beating the count. Eddie Futch when interviewed about the outcome of the fight was disgusted with Douglas.

Douglas admitted taking a dive in the last great fight by Joe Layden

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Who's the bigger puncher, Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum?
McCallum was a concussive puncher at lmw, but never carried his power up to mw. Nunn on the flip side was more of an arm puncher, but he could bang when he planted his feet as he did in the Kalambay fight. Overall I would say they were about the same at mw

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Seriously!?
Yes, seriously
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:07 AM   #49
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
What fight are you talking about?

Douglas flopped to the floor and seemed more concerned about having a bleeding nose than beating the count. Eddie Futch when interviewed about the outcome of the fight was disgusted with Douglas.

Douglas admitted taking a dive in the last great fight by Joe Layden

I haven't seen it in a long time, but I remember thinking that while Douglas could have gotten up, he would have been finished soon after. I never saw that he admitted to taking a dive? I'll look it up.


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McCallum was a concussive puncher at lmw, but never carried his power up to mw. Nunn on the flip side was more of an arm puncher, but he could bang when he planted his feet as he did in the Kalambay fight. Overall I would say they were about the same at mw
I'd agree with all of that. Before the Kalambay fight, Nunn wasn't seen as a puncher, he was a boxer and mover, yet he stopped Sumbu in the first round. Often it's not just about raw power, it's the timing and delivery, Mike went 24 rounds with Kalambay, Nunn got rid of him in 1. Which is why the common opponent argument is flawed.

Jones had better timing, accuracy and delivery than Benn, due to his superior speed, skills and unorthodox angles. But I think in terms of raw power, at 160 and 168, Benn hit harder.


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Yes, seriously

The stoppage of McLellan was a terrific display of Benn's power, bearing in mind that GM had stood up to Jackson's best shots
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:37 AM   #50
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
I haven't seen it in a long time,
You cannot use that defense here. Either you remember the fight or you dont
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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
but I remember thinking that while Douglas could have gotten up, he would have been finished soon after.
Douglas kept throwing the uppercut from way outside and eventually got caught with a counter. He flopped on the floor lifted his head and kept wiping his nose clearly looking to see if his nose was bleeding. As if that would somehow justify not getting back up.

Douglas most likely would not of gone the distance, but that would of been more due to his lack of conditioning than Holyfield's punching power.
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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
I never saw that he admitted to taking a dive? I'll look it up.
You do that
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I'd agree with all of that. Before the Kalambay fight, Nunn wasn't seen as a puncher, he was a boxer and mover, yet he stopped Sumbu in the first round.
No.

He hurt the durable Roldan and eventually stopped him in eight
Going into the Kalambay fight he had around 23 ko's in 32 fights.
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Often it's not just about raw power, it's the timing and delivery, Mike went 24 rounds with Kalambay, Nunn got rid of him in 1. Which is why the common opponent argument is flawed.
1: No one said it was a great indicator, but its really the only one with have. ko % don't mean much. One guy might have beat more journeyman than another guy

2: Nunn was basically an arm puncher, which meant that he was going for speed over power. During parts of the Roldan fight he set down on his punches and was able to hurt Roldan, at other times he was basically flurrying. If he sat down on his punches more than I'm sure he would of got more ko's. So I can't see how the common opponent argument is flawed here. You obviously have to take things like this into account
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Jones had better timing, accuracy and delivery than Benn, due to his superior speed, skills and unorthodox angles. But I think in terms of raw power, at 160 and 168, Benn hit harder.
But this is a guess on your part and no more accurate than my common opponent approach.
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The stoppage of McLellan was a terrific display of Benn's power, bearing in mind that GM had stood up to Jackson's best shots
Are you serious?

He fought the majority of that fight with a bleeding brain and quit when the pain got too unbearable. Benn's rabbit punching could not have helped either
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:16 AM   #51
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
You cannot use that defense here. Either you remember the fight or you dont

Take it easy Of course I've seen the fight, Holyfield is one of my favourite fighters, his fights made me a huge fan of the sport. Douglas got nailed on the chin and went down, he was hurt.


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Douglas kept throwing the uppercut from way outside and eventually got caught with a counter. He flopped on the floor lifted his head and kept wiping his nose clearly looking to see if his nose was bleeding. As if that would somehow justify not getting back up.
Douglas went down hard, he was hurt. As I said, he could have gotten up, but I think he knew he would have been finished off pretty quickly, hence why he stayed down. Against Tyson, he was able to get up and win.

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Douglas most likely would not of gone the distance, but that would of been more due to his lack of conditioning than Holyfield's punching power.
I think Douglas would have been finished off pretty quickly had he got up

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You do that

No.

He hurt the durable Roldan and eventually stopped him in eight
Going into the Kalambay fight he had around 23 ko's in 32 fights.
It's true, look it up, Nunn was not seen as a huge puncher, and no-one would have thought he would stop Kalambay. Mike on the other hand, went 24 rounds with Kalambay, and we agree that at MW, Nunn and McCallum had similar power

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1: No one said it was a great indicator, but its really the only one with have. ko % don't mean much. One guy might have beat more journeyman than another guy

You based ranking Jones above Benn solely on the Malinga fights, which I disagreed with


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2: Nunn was basically an arm puncher, which meant that he was going for speed over power. During parts of the Roldan fight he set down on his punches and was able to hurt Roldan, at other times he was basically flurrying. If he sat down on his punches more than I'm sure he would of got more ko's. So I can't see how the common opponent argument is flawed here. You obviously have to take things like this into account
I haven't seen Nunn-Roldan, hence I can't comment on it. Though I have seen Roldan's fights with Hagler and Hearns. But I know for a fact that Nunn wasn't seen as a huge puncher going into the Kalambay fight

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But this is a guess on your part and no more accurate than my common opponent approach.

True, hence we can just agree to disagree on ranking Jones and Benn as punchers. Though I still feel you can't necessarily rank Jones as a higher puncher purely because of their fights with Malinga


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Are you serious?

He fought the majority of that fight with a bleeding brain and quit when the pain got too unbearable. Benn's rabbit punching could not have helped either

We don't quite know just when the the onsets of brain damage took over, but Benn was hurting him early on and making him uncomfortable, and Mclellan shook off Jackson's best punches. The rabbit punches were a disgrace
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:42 AM   #52
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

I think Benn carried a bit more power at Middleweight.Astonishing power.At that weight second to Julian Jackson.Jackson is top after that ko over Erol Graham.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:44 AM   #53
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Douglas got nailed on the chin and went down, he was hurt.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM3VOSiaUEQ[/ame]
Go to 4:07
Does he look hurt to you?
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:59 AM   #54
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
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Go to 4:07
Does he look hurt to you?

Is he out? No. But yes he looks hurt to me, his legs buckled hard with that right hand. As I said, he probably could have gotten up, but he would have been finished off soon after
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:06 AM   #55
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Is he out? No. But yes he looks hurt to me, his legs buckled hard with that right hand. As I said, he probably could have gotten up, but he would have been finished off soon after
Douglas wasn't hurt. He had gotten up from that massive uppercut which Tyson had hit him with, so there's no way a right hook from a pumped up cruiser was going to seriously hurt him.

Years later when he was interviewed about it he admitted he didn't get up because he was tired.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #56
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Douglas went down hard, he was hurt. As I said, he could have gotten up, but I think he knew he would have been finished off pretty quickly, hence why he stayed down. Against Tyson, he was able to get up and win.
He actually trained for the Tyson fight, something which he really didn't do much of for the Holyfield fight.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:13 AM   #57
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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He actually trained for the Tyson fight, something which he really didn't do much of for the Holyfield fight.

Further proving how flawed the common opponent logic can be
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:21 AM   #58
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
It's true, look it up, Nunn was not seen as a huge puncher, and no-one would have thought he would stop Kalambay. Mike on the other hand, went 24 rounds with Kalambay, and we agree that at MW, Nunn and McCallum had similar power
Neither Nunn or McCallum were seen as big punchers at mw, but a case could get made than Nunn was the bigger puncher, when he made a point of actually planting his feet. Hence the reason he was able to get Kalambay out in a round, something which McCallum could not do in 24 rounds.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:24 AM   #59
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Further proving how flawed the common opponent logic can be
NO

It means you have to use examples were :
1: the opponent does not quit
2: the opponent actually trains for the fight

Which is why I would not use the Holyfield-Douglas fight as a example.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:30 AM   #60
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
NO

It means you have to use examples were :
1: the opponent does not quit
2: the opponent actually trains for the fight

Which is why I would not use the Holyfield-Douglas fight as a example.

Of course it does, you failed to note that Benn was a shell when he fought Malinga the second time around
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