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Old 10-14-2012, 10:30 AM   #61
general zod
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
We don't quite know just when the the onsets of brain damage took over, but Benn was hurting him early on and making him uncomfortable, and Mclellan shook off Jackson's best punches. The rabbit punches were a disgrace
He also shook of Benn's

1: McClellan was complaining about having headaches after round 2.
2: That was not peak McClellan that Benn was fighting, McClellan devolved as a fighter after having split with Manny
3: A case can be made that he actually had a head injury going into that fight
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:32 AM   #62
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Of course it does, you failed to note that Benn was a shell when he fought Malinga the second time around
And how did that take away from his power? He won his next two fight by ko and actually scored got a kd against Malinga in the rematch
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:38 AM   #63
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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You based ranking Jones above Benn solely on the Malinga fights, which I disagreed with
The problem is your alternative isn't really much better. What's the point of disagreeing with me if you cant offer a better alternative?
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:52 AM   #64
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
And how did that take away from his power? He won his next two fight by ko and actually scored got a kd against Malinga in the rematch
It took away from his timing and delivery


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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
The problem is your alternative isn't really much better. What's the point of disagreeing with me if you cant offer a better alternative?

The example was fine, it proves how the common opponent logic is flawed. You used Benn, Jones and Malinga, yet failed to acknowledge that Benn was a shell at the time of the Malinga rematch.
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #65
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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And it was tremendous how Benn managed to carry his power up to cruiserweight (when he was a natural welterweight/junior-middleweight); bouncing Piper's, Gent's and Malinga's shoulder blades off the canvas and shaking up Eubank in their return and McClellan...

Benn fought at Cruiserweight?
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:13 PM   #66
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

Rating power is pretty tricky, even when using common opponents.. A lot can be taken into account when rating how punches effect fighters other than just raw power. They always say the punch hurts you more when you can't see it coming.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:16 PM   #67
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Benn fought at Cruiserweight?
ie most Benn super-middle opponents were 185+ in the ring and Benn actually had great trouble getting as high as 168. Lenzie Morgan looked like a giant!
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:23 PM   #68
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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ie most Benn super-middle opponents were 185+ in the ring and Benn actually had great trouble getting as high as 168. Lenzie Morgan looked like a giant!
Well.. I am sure real Cruiserweights actually are Heavyweights on fight night... But they still had to weigh in at Cruiserweight.

I think it is important that we acknowledge, out of that group listed, Roy Jones was the only one who carried elite power above the 168 weight class.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:27 PM   #69
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

At 160 and even 168 Jones hit like a beast.

Hard to gauge really
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:39 PM   #70
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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McLellan also smashed Jones around in the amatuers according to Emaunal Steward so im putting Jones bottom, Jackson top, Benn and McLellan switchable in the middle. Although looking at their KO ratings Mclellan akes it at 85%. But then he didnt fight as much.
Benn KO'd McClellan so Benn is #2 IMO
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:49 PM   #71
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by Mind Reader View Post
Well.. I am sure real Cruiserweights actually are Heavyweights on fight night... But they still had to weigh in at Cruiserweight.

I think it is important that we acknowledge, out of that group listed, Roy Jones was the only one who carried elite power above the 168 weight class.
thats probably what distinguishes sheer physical power from actual precision force, the skill Jones was the latter, an ability that travels up the weight divisions (until he fcuked up his body and started losing it with all his weight changes).
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:59 PM   #72
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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thats probably what distinguishes sheer physical power from actual precision force, the skill Jones was the latter, an ability that travels up the weight divisions (until he fcuked up his body and started losing it with all his weight changes).

Very true...

Which is why I think G-Man, Jackson, and Benn may have had more raw power...

Roy was faster, more precise, and hit a bit more unexpected...

Roy's ability to catch fighters perfectly with a hard punch was very special... The other 3 did not have it quite as much... So I don't jump to rate Roy more powerful even though he was the only one out of that lot that wobbled a HW Champ with his power, and had true one punch knockouts with both hands at LHW...

Which almost makes you appreciate Roy even more... He had great power, but it was timing, accuracy, and perfect counters just as much as power.

He was a very great fighter.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:59 PM   #73
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

Jackson
Mccellan
Benn
Jones

Very tough to call though, they were all huge punchers at 160/168
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:12 PM   #74
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by Boxingfan2 View Post
Jackson
Mccellan
Benn
Jones

Very tough to call though, they were all huge punchers at 160/168
Though I don't disagree with your rating, don't you find it interesting, that the guy rated last, is the only one with one hand knockouts at LHW?

but as I said above, Jones' power came through reflex, accuracy and timing, just as much as how hard he hit.

It still seems weird though.. Makes me question what power is... Is it the guy that can pick the best spots, hit the most accurate, and distribute the power the best?
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:54 PM   #75
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Default Re: Benn, Jones, Jackson, McClellan: who hit the hardest?

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
The common opponent argument is flawed

Douglas TKO10 Tyson
Holyfield KO3 Douglas

According to this logic, Holyfield is a harder puncher than Tyson right?
????????


Tyson-Holyfield common opponents:

Henry Tillman:
Tyson: ko 1 Holyfield: tko 7
James Tillis:
Tyson: pts 10 Holyfield: 5 (tko?)
Pinklon Thomas:
Tyson: tko 6 Holyfield: 7 (tko?)
Alex Stewart:
Tyson: tko 1 Holyfield: tko 8

3-1 Tyson

I ignored the Douglas example for reasons already stated
It should also be pointed out that Tillamn was on the slide when he faced Holyfield

You basically just chose the example you liked and ignored all of their other common opponents
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