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Old 10-14-2012, 07:48 PM   #61
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

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Originally Posted by rusak View Post
They never saw Roy Jones though.

Since Greb liked fighting bigger guys, let him come in at 165 or so against Jones at 180-185. Jones is bigger, almost certainly faster. I suspect Jones is actually quite a bit faster.

Greb can't bully Jones, so what is he going to do? Let's not pretend that Greb wasn't stopped by welterweights either. I think Jones in those small gloves has an excellent chance at a stoppage.
err.. to my knowledge Greb was truly KO'd only once, in his 7th fight, by a very good Joe Chip and this happened when he was the modern equivalent of a junior welter fighting a true middle who was on a tear.

Greb got a lot better in the next years. That would be like calling out Roy's amateur loss to Frankie Liles.

Remember, fellow fighters, even great fighters, and trainers did not remark that Greb was merely fast but that he was the fastest they had ever seen... and this was in an era when there were a lot more active boxers than in the 1990's. I would not so lightly claim that Roy was faster than Greb and certainly not consider that he was much faster.

Also, while we talking speed, I think we have two different types here. Roy, as a bait and pounce guy or an aggressor was a bit of a pot-shotter. One punch, see the results, then perhaps follow up with a flurry. Greb was a swarmer in the true sense. He overwhelmed his opponents with volume and angles. Two very different types of speed. Roy was could deliver a single punch in half a blink; Greb just delivered so many punches together.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:24 PM   #62
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

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Its called the myth of talent. As if Roy just suddenly woke up with blazing speed and reflexes and anticipation. He trained his whole damn life to be that good. He's Mozart.
Didn't Mozart play like a genius at 2 years old? Blindfolded and all that shit?

They do say that the common trend in genius is 10000+ hours spent practicing it. However, often times it's a honing of genius. Early on, people are just gifted and don't know why or how. They're just good. Like Magnus Carlsen at chess. There's a pendulum that varies depending upon the situation, activity, individual, etc. Not a myth of talent. Roy was the greatest freak/phenom for reasons outside of merely training hard.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:27 PM   #63
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

Jones threw with an explosion of speed and power. In terms of punching speed and form, Jones is clearly superior. I don't need film to make this assessment. Greb by all accounts was more of a windmill. Happily trading away technique and power for speed & activity. Not trying to dumb it down too much as there clearly is a science to Greb's approach. He was successful for a reason, after all.

What's the point, though? Jones speed is more dangerous and lethal. I don't doubt Greb could flurry faster. But if you had to get hit by either man's flurry... we know the answer to that question.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:27 PM   #64
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

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Didn't Mozart play like a genius at 2 years old? Blindfolded and all that shit?

They do say that the common trend in genius is 10000+ hours spent practicing it. However, often times it's a honing of genius. Early on, people are just gifted and don't know why or how. They're just good. Like Magnus Carlsen at chess. There's a pendulum that varies depending upon the situation, activity, individual, etc. Not a myth of talent. Roy was the greatest freak/phenom for reasons outside of merely training hard.
He was older than 2. His father was a music teacher of some note and pretty much his entire family were musicians. He was raised to be a prodigy.

Roy was the same way. I'm not denying his genetic gifts. I'm just saying that if you focus on boxing like Roy Jones made his son (and more importantly the son responds) you shouldn't be surprised when you get a genius. Hell look at Floyd Mayweather Jr.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:39 PM   #65
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

Ya'll Musta Forgot!!!

I felt you cannot discuss any hypothetical match with RJJ and not insert that wonderfully hilarious phrase
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:45 PM   #66
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

Jones would beat the ****in b&w outta Greb.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:20 PM   #67
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

There's not even any b&w to beat out of him.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:26 AM   #68
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

jones on the sauce or off the sauce?
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:28 AM   #69
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

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Who the **** knows?
End thread.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:41 AM   #70
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

Jones style was very effective with added "supplements".
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:31 AM   #71
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

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err.. to my knowledge Greb was truly KO'd only once, in his 7th fight, by a very good Joe Chip and this happened when he was the modern equivalent of a junior welter fighting a true middle who was on a tear.

Greb got a lot better in the next years. That would be like calling out Roy's amateur loss to Frankie Liles.

Remember, fellow fighters, even great fighters, and trainers did not remark that Greb was merely fast but that he was the fastest they had ever seen... and this was in an era when there were a lot more active boxers than in the 1990's. I would not so lightly claim that Roy was faster than Greb and certainly not consider that he was much faster.

Also, while we talking speed, I think we have two different types here. Roy, as a bait and pounce guy or an aggressor was a bit of a pot-shotter. One punch, see the results, then perhaps follow up with a flurry. Greb was a swarmer in the true sense. He overwhelmed his opponents with volume and angles. Two very different types of speed. Roy was could deliver a single punch in half a blink; Greb just delivered so many punches together.
Joe Chip would probably be a junior middle or welter today. The point is that Greb could be knocked out, and "middleweight" Jones was huge compared to Greb. If Greb runs into Jones' best shots, he's getting knocked out.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:13 AM   #72
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

Roy off tren or on? tis the question lol
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:34 AM   #73
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Remember, fellow fighters, even great fighters, and trainers did not remark that Greb was merely fast but that he was the fastest they had ever seen... and this was in an era when there were a lot more active boxers than in the 1990's. I would not so lightly claim that Roy was faster than Greb and certainly not consider that he was much faster..
The footage we have of Greb would suggest he isn't nearly as quick, also:

Bartfield won the newspaper decision according to both the Buffalo Boxing Record and the Pittsburgh Post. According to the Post, it was a stormy, rough battle. Greb overpowered his man in the clinches and forced Bartfield to the ropes. "But he could not even up the soldier's wonderful early round battling and hard hitting." Bartfield stood and punched back when Greb attacked. Evidently Greb did not have the advantage of quickness and speed that he usually enjoyed. It was a close battle and opinions were somewhat divided. Dan McKetrick, Bartfield's manager, rushed to Western Union and sent out a phony report that Bartfield had won every round!

Newspaper win for Gibbons according to the Pittsburgh Post. Greb "took the licking of his life." Gibbons won 7 rounds, Greb only two (narrowly), and the third round was even. "Gibbons astonished the fans with the speed and accuracy of his punches, and his ability to make Harry miss and look bad. Gibbons has made a believer of this writer (Florent Gibson), who did not believe him of the same caliber as Greb. Ringsiders declared..that Harry looked awfully bad and didn't fight his usual fight." Gibbons "seemed to solve Greb's attack with ease." He marked up Greb badly but didn't hurt him too much. "Gibbons was the aggressor at all stages. He had Harry backing away from the start..and this is unusual." Greb even had to hold in the last three rounds. Greb occasionally switched around and surprised Gibbons, but not much. Gibbons made Greb's right hand almost useless. Greb did win the 5th and 6th rounds but he definitely took a licking.

I think I read something about O'Dowd being as quick in their match too

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Jones threw with an explosion of speed and power. In terms of punching speed and form, Jones is clearly superior. I don't need film to make this assessment. Greb by all accounts was more of a windmill. Happily trading away technique and power for speed & activity. Not trying to dumb it down too much as there clearly is a science to Greb's approach. He was successful for a reason, after all.

What's the point, though? Jones speed is more dangerous and lethal. I don't doubt Greb could flurry faster. But if you had to get hit by either man's flurry... we know the answer to that question.
Hard to pinpoint Greb's style but he does seem about workrate as much as speed
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:16 PM   #74
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

yeah all the people at the top of their fields, they spend thousands of hours training.

Whether it's Messi with a ball, Jones in a ring, Bill Gates at a computer, Mozart with Music, Taylor with his darts, Federer with his racket and so on and so forth.

Noone is born with genius talent, they just work damn hard to get there.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:20 PM   #75
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Default Re: Roy Jones vs. Harry Greb @ MW.

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Originally Posted by rusak View Post
Joe Chip would probably be a junior middle or welter today. The point is that Greb could be knocked out, and "middleweight" Jones was huge compared to Greb. If Greb runs into Jones' best shots, he's getting knocked out.
You might want to take into account that Greb was a teenager when he fought Chip.

His only other knockout loss in 300+ fights was caused by a broken arm.

There is absolutely no reason to think that Jones would be able to knock Greb out.
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