What is the best kicking martial art?

[ROACH]

Originally Posted by PIRA

Too many assumptions in your post regarding Muay Thai - you need to do your own research or if your mind is set on Savate just do it.

The rest of the world figured out which is best - you will too.

Why can't anybody elaborate?

Can you at least say why Muy Thai is superior? Does it have to do with the kicks?

The angles?

What?

To me, it sounds like people are just ignorant.

[PIRA]

Hip roll technique is better for kicking, conditioning is better for kicking and checking which ****s up Savate, catching kicks totally ****s up Savate and Thai's don't wear shitty moon pants and ballet leotards to fight.

A lot of the questions you ask are answered in the video you posted and haven't watched going by your description. Pathetic kickboxing fights where the Thai fighter loses half of his weapons shows how confident Savate is against Muay Thai.

[sugarngold]

Originally Posted by ROACH

Why can't anybody elaborate?

Can you at least say why Muy Thai is superior? Does it have to do with the kicks?

The angles?

What?

To me, it sounds like people are just ignorant.

People like muay thai because the practitioners are extremely well conditioned in terms of both stamina and toughness. And anyone that is not equally conditioned will wilt under a sustained attack.

Personally - unless you're planning on fighting in a ring - then Savate would be just fine for you - especially once you factor in the fact that you can wear shoes or boots to add to the damage from the kicks. Most of the folks on this board only think about MMA under rules regulated situations - and not real world anything goes situations.

[ROACH]

Originally Posted by PIRA

Hip roll technique is better for kicking, conditioning is better for kicking and checking which ****s up Savate, catching kicks totally ****s up Savate and Thai's don't wear shitty moon pants and ballet leotards to fight.

A lot of the questions you ask are answered in the video you posted and haven't watched going by your description. Pathetic kickboxing fights where the Thai fighter loses half of his weapons shows how confident Savate is against Muay Thai.

Is it possible to be a defensive oriented Muy Thai fighter? Do you know any Muy Thai fighters with elusive footwork?

[PIRA]

Originally Posted by ROACH

Is it possible to be a defensive oriented Muy Thai fighter? Do you know any Muy Thai fighters with elusive footwork?

Yes and yes. See them everyday in the gym.

[SuperiorBeen]

Muay Thai doesn't use flashy techniques, it's all about power, efficiency and damage done to opponent. Kyokushin Karate and Tae Kwon Do have more kicks but some of them are situational and very hard to pull off. With some kicks if you don't perform them correctly you can seriously injure yourself. (tornado kick for example) Usually in Karate for the kicks they use the foot and in Muay Thay the shin-bone. It's debatable what technique is the best.
BTW: I've seen Baukaw using some serious bobing and weaving against the rope ala Mayweather. There are some defensive fighters like Bonjasky or Semmy Shilt but in K1 aggressivity is scored better than using defensive technique that why you don't see many defensive fighters.

[Dannytsg]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

Welcome to the forum

Excellent post

Thank you very much. Just summing it up from my experience with Muay Thai and Kyokushin karate really.

My personal preference is Muay Thai as I love the solid stance, "cause and effect" system that it operates. If i kick you and it doesn't have an effect then it doesn't score etc.

I also think that in a 'real life' situation trying to throw and effective kick would be a serious downfall as there are too many factors to go wrong although the Muay Thai clinch work and grappling coupled with a ground game would stand you in good stead on the street.

[PIRA]

Originally Posted by Dannytsg

Thank you very much. Just summing it up from my experience with Muay Thai and Kyokushin karate really.

My personal preference is Muay Thai as I love the solid stance, "cause and effect" system that it operates. If i kick you and it doesn't have an effect then it doesn't score etc.

I also think that in a 'real life' situation trying to throw and effective kick would be a serious downfall as there are too many factors to go wrong although the Muay Thai clinch work and grappling coupled with a ground game would stand you in good stead on the street.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by ROACH

Everyone talks about this, but I rarely ever see knees or elbows being implemented in a fight.

If a guy gets that close, they are usually pushed against the cage at close quarters...

Okay, I take that back, they are kneeing eachother in the legs, but how much technique does that take? Isn't that something that would just come natural? It's like, hmmmm....I can't use my arms because I'm using them to hold on to my opponent...I can't kick because I'm too close....so, I'll use knees.

That doesn't require much skill. That's mostly instinct. I mean, don't get me wrong, you need the balance, but every martial art has balance. If you don't have balance, it doesn't matter what you do, you're never going to be any good.

So while Muy Thai has more weapons, you can only utilize them up close and by that time, your opponent typically tries to grapple you and the fight ends up on the floor or against the cage.

Stand up is mostly utilized on the outiside. That's where you're most effective, unless you can catch somebody with some short hooks on the inside, but like I said, by that time, your opponent will typically grapple you.

So, why does Savate not get very much credit when it appears to be more fluid and geared towards counterpunching and defense than does Muy Thai?

Im choosing to reply because you went all that effort on a tiny ermark from myself, so out of politeness im obliging

Ill be honest, MT or any type of kicking is the weak part of my game, and believe me when i say this, im no expert, but i do MT so that a) i can see the kicks coming and counter with a shot (take down shot) or block them, b) to improve my elbow and knee techniques c) clinch work d) offensive kicking

Pretty much in that order of importance

Ill be completely honest with you here mate, I've never heard of Savate, so i cant compare the 2, going back to answering some of your statements/questions

I think unless your taking knee's in the clinch, either to the body or legs, you wont appreciate the damage you can cause with repeated knee's to your opponents legs and body, it can literally be the "fight winner or loser" depending on whether your giving or taking them

Leg kicks once again speak for themselves, being hit by a good leg kicker is like being hit with a base ball bat, nobody wants to be hit with a base ball bat right ???

Elbows .................... elbows are like throwing a punch, you still need to step in, use your hips and legs to generate power otherwise whats the point of throwing them ?, with everything that is technical it needs drilling, an elbow, knee or leg kick, or anything in MT is derived from technique, therefore that technique needs enhancing and mastering, does it not ??

Im not sure you have meant to come across as such but i get the feeling your being dismissive of the finer detail of MT for MMA, not just pure MT as practised in Thailand, which is short sighted and a tad ignorant as well as being wrong

[thewinfella]

Boran where is your ass ????

[ChessLord]

as far as mma goes, and i have heard this said even by goes who do mauy thai..it has its draw backs. the leaning back stance tends to leave one open for take downs. the one mma fighter i know, who has a mauy thai background, often switches to more of a standard boxing stance, when he is worried about being taking down and then rellies on punches more with a few leg kicks.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Dannytsg

Thank you very much. Just summing it up from my experience with Muay Thai and Kyokushin karate really.

My personal preference is Muay Thai as I love the solid stance, "cause and effect" system that it operates. If i kick you and it doesn't have an effect then it doesn't score etc.

I also think that in a 'real life' situation trying to throw and effective kick would be a serious downfall as there are too many factors to go wrong although the Muay Thai clinch work and grappling coupled with a ground game would stand you in good stead on the street.

To be honest mate i dont fight in the street, gym or cage for me

I could tell you were into Thai from your post, it was a very good post

[HeGlassedMe]

[IMG]***********.sdakotabirds.com/feathers_and_folly/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Kick_the_can.jpg[/IMG]
Anderson kung do

[Wilhelm]

Originally Posted by ROACH

I don't understand why you say it leaves your leg more open to leg kicks when in the videos I posted, both guys could utilize leg kicks, but the Savate guy was in no more danger than the Muy Thai practitioner?

I mean, is it really necessary to stand squared up?

I don't see Anderson Silva standing squared up, nor Rampage.

Doesn't getting out of the way of a single leg take down come down more to the athlete rather than the style?

I mean, if you have slow reactions, you get taken down, right?

You said the Savate practitioner was very hard to spar, so why would you give the impression that Muy Thai is superior?

Wouldn't it be best to learn both, but utilize the Savate stance and footwork from a distance, and utilize either boxing or Muy Thai from up close?

I mean, I understand that Muy Thai has knees, but I've seen a guy get knocked out when he put somebody in a clinch, by the other guy who was throwing fast, short hooks.

I mean if you're strength is stand up, woudln't it be best to keep your distance and range, and if you get inside, typically against a guy rangier than you, would you want to try to knee him anyway?

Probably not right?

I mean, I've never seen anybody attempt to knee Jon Jones. In fact, the only way Jon Jones may be beatable is to catch him with a counter hook and hope he doesn't have a chin.

You're not going to beat him at a distance, and you can't knee him, so what good is Muy Thai knees?

I mean, the only time I really see Muy Thai knees work is when a guy is rushing in with his head down.

And I know you said, "it's easy to say, you can just learn knees," but what is there really?

I mean, it's pretty simple isn't it? It's not like it's rocket science. You just lock the guy behind his neck and drive your knee up. That's pretty simple.

In contrast, counterpunching and counterkicking someone like Savate emphasizes, that takes skill.

Am I wrong?

And I know you say, most people go with Muy Thai, but you know as well as I do, that most people don't really have much natural fluidity or rhthymm, so they would naturally be inclined to gravitate towards something that to me looks like it comes down to who can kick or punch the hardest or who can take the most punishment.

Don't ask six thousand questions in a post. There's no way anyone is going to answer every one and it makes it impossible to remember what you're actually interested in getting out of this thread.

You say all sorts of stuff about "but knees are only use blah" and "but this leg is turned blah" and "people aren't fluid blah" but you don't really know what you're talking about and you won't know until you go and try this stuff. Sorry, I know you're looking for some definitive answer before you try either but there's no way of know which will work better FOR YOU until YOU try them. Maybe you'll try MT and love it and forget all about this weird thread where you seem to want someone to tell you it's okay to do savate. Maybe you'll do savate and kick the shit out of everyone in your path and you'll feel super proud that you "knew it in advance". Who knows? No one does. Go try one, get decent at it by sparring a lot and then go to a gym where the teach whatever one you didn't choose and spar some other guys and see what you think. Sure, in a perfect world there would be 96 hours in a day and we'd all spend them training a dozen martial arts and all be stone cold badasses, but that's not the real world. Just go try it and be open minded and see what happens.

Jeeze.

[PIRA]

Guys a troll - got seriously weird in the training forum. IP ban.