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Old 10-21-2012, 12:47 PM   #91
Flea Man
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

Ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha no.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs2C17wl5yQ[/ame]
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:52 PM   #92
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

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Originally Posted by AlFrancis View Post
Jofre

Apart from a return with Harada, Jofre was also in the mix for a challenge if dad had beaten Harada.
Dad was in the running for a title fight with for Jofre's crown in 1965 after beating Caldwell and Ben Ali impressively. Harry Levene was trying to bring him over to England. Jofre had the Harada fight to get out of the way first, it wasn't really considered that Jofre would lose his title to Harada so that all fell through. Walter McGowan was also in talks with Jofre's people at this time, he had to get past Joe Medel in what was virtually an eliminator, Medel was no. 1 contender for the title.
Jofre was obviously a great fighter but I think 65-66 would of been a good ytime to fight him. I've wondered wether he really was having problems with the weight, he'd looked great it seems against Carabello and he only weighed 116 for Harada in the return, maybe there's a story behind that. It's possible that he just lost focus round that time, there was the draw with Manny Elias in Brazil though by all accounts he did win that fight but Elias did take rounds of him and was a good pressure fighter. Me dad fought Elias in 68 and shut him out. He did say that Elias was a real tough nut and hard to catch cleanly only offering the top of his head but dad ended up hitting him with every shot in the book and boxed well within himself. It was a good workout, not worth damaging your hands to get a ko on your ledger. Elias went on to box Jofre in 1970 up at feather going down on a clear points decision which sounds like a similar fight to me dad's. Elias had got himself a world rating with the draw against Jofre but back to back losses in Japan to World rated Katsuo Saito and Yoshio Yakane. Both these fights were split decisions so chances are they could of gone either way. Elias with better breaks might of achieved more, a quality fighter.
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Obviously there is the possibility that Harada was just a stylistic nightmare for Jofre, he might of caused him problems at any time.
All in all and I'm not saying dad would of beat Jofre but 65-66 would of been the best time to fight him, dad came back from the Harada with 3 good wins against Mexicans. Felipe Gonzalez, Edmundo Esparza and Raul Vega. Gonzalez was the first man to take Olivares the distance and ko'd Chucho Castillo in his next fight. Esparza held a points win over Fighting Harada in Japan in 62 only 6 months before Harada crushed Pone Kingpetch to win his first title. Dad said Esparza was real tricky ion the Mexican mould. Early in the fight he was trying to draw dad in to the ropes. A couplre of times dad followed him in only to be met with crunching right uppercuts. He soon got wise and boxed from the centre then closing on Esparza in the second half and taking him to the ropes on his own terms punching out a good points win.

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Vega was a good puncher with a few 1st round kayoes on his ledger. Dad was badly cut in this fight needing plastic surgery afterwards. He showed his versatility in taking a good points decision boxfighting and protecting the cuts at the same time.

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He got the ring fighter of the month on these showings, all 3 fights were within a couple of months.


Rudkin Jofre common opponents

Caldwell Jofre TKO 10 1962
Rudkin TKO 10 1965

Harada Jofre L pts 15 1965
L pts 15 1966
Rudkin L pts 15 1965

Elias Jofre D 10 1965
Jofre W pts 10 1970
Rudkin W pts 10 1968

Corona Jofre W KO 6 1969
Rudkin W TKO 7 1968

Bisbal Jofre KO 2 1972
Rudkin W pts 10 1966

Here's my take on the Jofre Harada fights by the way.

I thought Jofre boxed the wrong fight in the first fight. He didn't/couldn't make the most of his jab, he allowed Harada to bully him to the ropes for long periods and didn't throw enough body shots. He did on the other hand throw some beautiful combinations off the ropes and it was a fight all the way. He seemed to me to be looking for the big shot, maybe he'd seen the Medel fight. I thought Harada won and for me this was the best he looked. Great movement, great footwork, ring generalship, just brilliant boxing, the complete fighter.

Here's my scorecard with notes I made.
Harada Jofre

1 10 9 jab, workrate, body shots

2 10 9 busy busy, Jofre 1st half, close

3 10 9 close

4 10 9 big, Jofgre hurt

5 9 10 clear, untidy but effective hooking

6 9 10 H fighting in bursts, Jofre busier

7 10 9 H picking shots and smothering

8 9 10 slashing left hooks, worked hard

9 10 9 the jab, rights through middle

10 9 10 H coasting

11 10 9 H jab working, close round, Jofre second half

12 10 9 good round, beat J to punch and smothering

13 10 9 busier, J tired

14 9 10 clear

15 9 10 close

Harada 69 Jofre 66

Harada Jofre 2

Harada Jofre

1 9 10 J busier, centre of the ring boxing

2 9 10 centre ring dropping in rights behind the jab

3 10 9 H clear round, bullying and boxing well, rough

4 10 9 H closed the distance, smothered Jofre, boxed well. J on ropes
but lande good counters (close)

5 10 9 H clear round, controlling the tempo, Jofre not happy on
ropes, warning for headwork.

6 10 9 H controlled round off jab, good body shots, j couldn't settle.

7 9 10 very close, h doing his thing but Jofre good counters

8 9 10 H untidy, J landing good shots on the inside. H second half
success on ropes but J counterpunching well. Physical round!

9 10 9 H dominated boxing, J tired, H more relaxed in second half.

10 10 9 Great start to round for Jofre with rights but H steps up for
last 2 minutes, close round

11 9 10 Very untidy round, J cleaner shots, H looking tired

12 9 10 Good Jofre round, jabs and rights over top, centre ring

13 10 9 Hard fought close round, both tired. H more work though some
of it sloppy

14 10 9 Good start to round by J. H catches him with head on cheek
which unsettles J. H finishes round strongly landing flush.

15 10 9 H good first half then smothers J for remainder.

Harada 69 Jofre 66

By the way if anyone wants to do this for the Harada- Rudkin fight, I'd be interested in hearing it, however you see it, no problems.
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This post is fantastic Al.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #93
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

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This post is fantastic Al.
Thanks Vic, glad you saw it. I think you know more about Jofre than all of us.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:25 PM   #94
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha no.

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Nice one flea, think I've got some reports for that fight, I'll dig them out. Walter didn't pay Medel enough respect there.

Last edited by AlFrancis; 10-21-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:44 PM   #95
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Ho ho ho he he he ha ha ha no.
One does not simply trap Medel on the ropes!
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #96
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

That was actually a response to Frank

But yeah, McGowen wasn't the greatest ring general as, for all his skills to liked to get too involved despite lack of big dig and terrible skin.

Medel sets bear traps. Actual bear traps. Big enough to snare bantams and to crush flys

McGowan was ace though.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:08 PM   #97
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
That was actually a response to Frank

But yeah, McGowen wasn't the greatest ring general as, for all his skills to liked to get too involved despite lack of big dig and terrible skin.

Medel sets bear traps. Actual bear traps. Big enough to snare bantams and to crush flys

McGowan was ace though.
If u cared about uploading d unavailable Gaby Canizales and Raul Perez fights , then u would not have remained so ignorant .

And remember , Jorge Lujan got stopped 0 times , Castillo got stopped 5 times and i discount d times when he was shot .
Also , Raul Perez got stopped 0 times @ 118 and had a considerably longer reign against even better opponents , or at least not any worse .
Canizales got stopped 1 time , still better than Castillo .
Chandler got stopped 1 time .

And this is comparing Castillo , clearly d gr8est and best of what u called d best era of 118 .

If I chose some1 else from that era , then i would find even more gr8er fighters from d better eras .

Castillo , Herera , Olivares were a significant advance from their predecessors , except maybe Jofre , but were not superior 2 Perez , Canizales , Contreras .

Castillo a top 15 @ 118 , Lujan a top 2 .
It may b that all of Lujan's losses during or near his prime except from Chandler when he was probably drained were robberies .

Lujan might not have been a tremendous puncher but was a gr8 fighter and yet a gr8er 118 .

U get swayed by d hype typically after all that u learned , having Orlando and Ricardo above Gaby (how and y did he get this name?) 4 a starker example 4 your idiocy .


edit : My mistake , Castillo was stopped 5 times b4 he got shot , not 2

Last edited by frankenfrank; 10-22-2012 at 05:20 PM. Reason: My mistake , Castillo was stopped 5 times b4 he got shot , not 2
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:40 PM   #98
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

get this fool out of here.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:29 AM   #99
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

Agreed, surely he should get banned for abysmal spastication?!?
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:18 AM   #100
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

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Agreed, surely he should get banned for abysmal spastication?!?

is that a medical term
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:45 AM   #101
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

It is now
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:10 PM   #102
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

Rudkin - Rose

Very good bout. Especially if you're a fan of technical fights.

Rose looked massive next to tiny Rudkin - "This is a man fighting a little boy".
Rose controlled Rudkin with the jab in the early rounds and landed some fast left hooks in the later rounds.

For the first 4 rounds Rudkin looked like he was out of his depth versus Rose - smaller, slower, haven't landed a single meaningful punch and cut.

But it seemed like that cut woke up Rudkin.

He adjusted very good - nice sneaky right hands and some good body shots.
I think Rudkin even got bigger as the fight progressed.

The last round definitely deserves a mention - Rudkin showed real guts and determination.

The judge who scored the fight 60-75 in favour of Rose obviously was a big big fan of Rose.

It was a very close fight, not a robbery by any means.

Personally I think 8-7 in favour of Rudkin would have been a fair decision.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:28 PM   #103
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

Im a bit late,been all over the place lately,but thanks for the film,Flea Man.First time Ive seen it since it happened.Pure class.Liked the bit about crushing flys.Also agree that Walter a top boxer.Also had a steely attitude,like his contemporaries Alan Rudkin,Howard Winstone,Dave Charnley etc.Didnt remember Walter down in the first,memory playing tricks.Cheers.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:37 PM   #104
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

No problemo TED and Lester I had it 8-7 to Rudkin as well.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #105
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Default Re: If Alan Rudkin had beaten Fighting Harada...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester1583 View Post
Rudkin - Rose

Very good bout. Especially if you're a fan of technical fights.

Rose looked massive next to tiny Rudkin - "This is a man fighting a little boy".
Rose controlled Rudkin with the jab in the early rounds and landed some fast left hooks in the later rounds.

For the first 4 rounds Rudkin looked like he was out of his depth versus Rose - smaller, slower, haven't landed a single meaningful punch and cut.

But it seemed like that cut woke up Rudkin.

He adjusted very good - nice sneaky right hands and some good body shots.
I think Rudkin even got bigger as the fight progressed.

The last round definitely deserves a mention - Rudkin showed real guts and determination.

The judge who scored the fight 60-75 in favour of Rose obviously was a big big fan of Rose.

It was a very close fight, not a robbery by any means.

Personally I think 8-7 in favour of Rudkin would have been a fair decision.
I agree with you Lester with that 8-7 and you could even say 8-7 either way, it was that close. Me dad never made a fuss about the decision at the time and over the years. He felt he had done enough to take it but accepted it was a close one. He did though have strong feelings about Ray Mitchell's scorecard, a joke. I read somewhere that his breakdown was actually 14 to Rose with one even, the 13th. That means he had a 5-3 round in there as well. For me referee Vic Patrick's is a strange one, the maths don't add up. 70-63 must be 5 to me dad and 10 to Rose with two 5-3's. I've always wondered wether it was really 70-68 Rose and was read out wrong. There were a couple of papèrs that scored it a draw.
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