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Old 10-22-2012, 01:17 PM   #46
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

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Originally Posted by alba View Post
What a daft statement ,what if broner came over here to fight burns and he burns won him ? he wouldenth ave proven himself becuase he didnt fight and ko him in the states?
Been taken the wrong way

You can be World class without fighting in the states, you wont get the same recognition and respect however unless you at some stage go overthere and start mixing it with the best in your weight class

I dunno why so many British fans want our fighters to stay at home, it's better seeing them travel and compete and ge the recognition from abroad.

I don't mind if Burns/Brook fight a top name or two here but i also want to see them in with a top name in the states.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:23 PM   #47
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Sorry but unless you go and fight on the World stage in the states, then you haven't proven yourself to be on the World level.
No. Its who you beat that's most important. Not where you beat them. Though that's a factor to be considered as well obviously.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:28 PM   #48
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

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He has only fought domestically, against other fighters who have fought here a lot. Katsidis is one of these. Katsisdis is a great fighter who has fought at elite level, and come short.
Actually your first post was that he was a "domestic level fighter". That means he is in and around the British title level but not good enough to go beyond that. He has already gone beyond that.

Now you're twisting it to "Fought domestically" because he has been fighting at home. So what? Calzaghe was clearly World Class despite fighting at home. He beat Mitchell, Eubank, Reid, Brewer etc at home. He then whipped Lacy and beat Kessler at home.

By your rationale he was still only domestic level because he hadn't gone to fight them in the US.

Also, ignoring Katsidis, what about Martinez? When Martinez fought Burns he had only fought once before in the UK, when he destroyed Cook. Since losing to Burns he has gone on to become World Champion again. But I notice you conveniently ignored him when posting about guys who have "fought here a lot". As if that makes any difference anyway. Winky Wright fought in the UK a few times, hardly meant that he was a lesser opponent for anyone.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:51 PM   #49
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

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Actually your first post was that he was a "domestic level fighter". That means he is in and around the British title level but not good enough to go beyond that. He has already gone beyond that.

Now you're twisting it to "Fought domestically" because he has been fighting at home. So what? Calzaghe was clearly World Class despite fighting at home. He beat Mitchell, Eubank, Reid, Brewer etc at home. He then whipped Lacy and beat Kessler at home.

By your rationale he was still only domestic level because he hadn't gone to fight them in the US.

Also, ignoring Katsidis, what about Martinez? When Martinez fought Burns he had only fought once before in the UK, when he destroyed Cook. Since losing to Burns he has gone on to become World Champion again. But I notice you conveniently ignored him when posting about guys who have "fought here a lot". As if that makes any difference anyway. Winky Wright fought in the UK a few times, hardly meant that he was a lesser opponent for anyone.
I ain't twisted f*ck all, thats how I meant it all along. But nice try.

I can see why you would take it that way, because you want to get out of it what tickles your fancy and try and make others look like fools in the process.

I haven't conceded anything, I believe Ricky Burns is a step up from Domestic level, he has proved that now after beating everyone at that level, but I think thats where it ends. It's how you perceive it from then on, he's either still a very good domestic level fighter, or he's just a step up from domestic level. But the argument is, if he fails to beat a Vasquez, a De Marco, a Broner in the future......he just was a very good domestic fighter. HOWEVER, If he beats one of those, and he IS capable, then he goes from that, to world class. Better?

The only reason this is a debate, is because of the fanboys, simple as. Anybody open minded and unbiased can see whats up, the fanboys only see one picture, always have, always will. "Ricky Burns will do everyone!!!!!"



I have not once said Ricky Burns is crap, or compared him to Ricky Hatton stylistically. Once again people read and then take whatever they want out of it, totally out of context.

I hope the people in here are right, I hope Ricky Burns "does" Adrien Broner. But in my opinion (am I aloud that?) not yours, I think he falls short for the WBC. I'm not the only one who thinks that, but who is hounding them?

I must just attract arguments and clever clogs.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:38 PM   #50
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

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I ain't twisted f*ck all, thats how I meant it all along. But nice try.
Well you need to write more carefully then, because absolutely NOBODY other than you uses the phrase "domestic level fighter" to mean someone who has fought at home all the time. Because as I said that would apply to proven elite fighters like Calzaghe before he went to the US at the very end.

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
I can see why you would take it that way, because you want to get out of it what tickles your fancy and try and make others look like fools in the process.
No, I took it that way because that is how the phrase is used. Just like if I saw someone write "He wont make it past the 6th round" I would rightfully take it that they meant said fighter would be stopped and not that they meant he would win by stoppage and thus not have to go past the 6th round.

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
I haven't conceded anything, I believe Ricky Burns is a step up from Domestic level, he has proved that now after beating everyone at that level, but I think thats where it ends. It's how you perceive it from then on, he's either still a very good domestic level fighter, or he's just a step up from domestic level. But the argument is, if he fails to beat a Vasquez, a De Marco, a Broner in the future......he just was a very good domestic fighter. HOWEVER, If he beats one of those, and he IS capable, then he goes from that, to world class. Better?
Not really a lot better no. He beat a guy who is currently a world champion. Martinez. He beat him in a world title fight making him world title level. The guy then went on to reclaim that world title and show he was not a one off fluke.

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
The only reason this is a debate, is because of the fanboys, simple as. Anybody open minded and unbiased can see whats up, the fanboys only see one picture, always have, always will. "Ricky Burns will do everyone!!!!!"

I'm not a fanboy and clearly he would get done by several of the guys around that weight class. But he keeps proving people wrong and so fair play to him.
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I have not once said Ricky Burns is crap, or compared him to Ricky Hatton stylistically. Once again people read and then take whatever they want out of it, totally out of context.
I know, I never claimed you had.

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
I hope the people in here are right, I hope Ricky Burns "does" Adrien Broner. But in my opinion (am I aloud that?) not yours, I think he falls short for the WBC. I'm not the only one who thinks that, but who is hounding them?

I must just attract arguments and clever clogs.
Nothing wrong with thinking he will lose to Broner at all. My only issue was calling him domestic level. Now you've explained what you meant by that, I just think it is totally irrelevant as opposed to outright wrong.

If he never left Scotland, but had Broner, Demarco and Vazquez come over and fight him, he would have proved himself plenty without needing to fight abroad. That said, personally I like to see our fighters go abroad too and I can't understand why any boxer would not want to fight at Madison Square Garden or top a bill in Vegas.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:46 PM   #51
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
I ain't twisted f*ck all, thats how I meant it all along. But nice try.

I can see why you would take it that way, because you want to get out of it what tickles your fancy and try and make others look like fools in the process.

I haven't conceded anything, I believe Ricky Burns is a step up from Domestic level, he has proved that now after beating everyone at that level, but I think thats where it ends. It's how you perceive it from then on, he's either still a very good domestic level fighter, or he's just a step up from domestic level. But the argument is, if he fails to beat a Vasquez, a De Marco, a Broner in the future......he just was a very good domestic fighter. HOWEVER, If he beats one of those, and he IS capable, then he goes from that, to world class. Better?

The only reason this is a debate, is because of the fanboys, simple as. Anybody open minded and unbiased can see whats up, the fanboys only see one picture, always have, always will. "Ricky Burns will do everyone!!!!!"



I have not once said Ricky Burns is crap, or compared him to Ricky Hatton stylistically. Once again people read and then take whatever they want out of it, totally out of context.

I hope the people in here are right, I hope Ricky Burns "does" Adrien Broner. But in my opinion (am I aloud that?) not yours, I think he falls short for the WBC. I'm not the only one who thinks that, but who is hounding them?

I must just attract arguments and clever clogs.
craney me old grandad,we know what you meant by domestic and you do,so don't twist it around
your explanation is possibly the worst explanation ive ever seen by someone trying to get out of a bit of complete bollocks they posted,
" what i meant by domestic level is i mean he erm just fights at home not abroad so,erm that means he is erm a domestic erm fighter " just brilliant brilliant , don't worry, we all do,just take it like a man grandad
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:12 PM   #52
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

@Strike

No strike, until Ricky Burns fights one of those we have talked about, he remains a domestic level fighter and I stand by that. He may have beaten everyone at this level now, that means he has to step up and fight one of the three mentioned. It doesn't matter if he fights them here or there or anywhere. He has to fight them, these are the CLEAR elites at Lightweight. Ricky Burns may have fought people who have fought at that level or held belts in the past, but that doesn't mean Ricky Burns is Elite/world class level, yet, does it? So until he fights one of those who are, now, not in the past, now, if not fights all of them, and maybe wins one or two, he will remain domestic level, regardless of the WBO belt he holds.

He is relatively unknown, apart from in the UK. It's time to step up and prove his worth.

I repeat, he is domestic level now, and if he doesn't fight one of the three, he will remain at domestic level.

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Originally Posted by widdy View Post
craney me old grandad,we know what you meant by domestic and you do,so don't twist it around
your explanation is possibly the worst explanation ive ever seen by someone trying to get out of a bit of complete bollocks they posted,
" what i meant by domestic level is i mean he erm just fights at home not abroad so,erm that means he is erm a domestic erm fighter " just brilliant brilliant , don't worry, we all do,just take it like a man grandad
QUICK! Sign into your other accounts so you can agree with yourself and pretend your right!

RICKY BURNS, yes, your bum buddy Ricky Burns, IS domestic level and until he fights at the level we are talking about, elite/world class, he will REMAIN a domestic level fighter. He has obviously cleaned up domestically, but that still makes him a domestic level fighter, all be it, the cherry on the top of domestic level, but still domestic level.

And, lastly, the funniest thing in all of this, is that you confirmed to me in my response to Strike, the people that are on here. You read and cherry picked partially, so you can turn it into something its not and never was and try and cause an argument for everybody else to get involved in.

Well done.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:28 PM   #53
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

[quote=craney91;14050044]@Strike

No strike, until Ricky Burns fights one of those we have talked about, he remains a domestic level fighter and I stand by that. He may have beaten everyone at this level now, that means he has to step up and fight one of the three mentioned. It doesn't matter if he fights them here or there or anywhere. He has to fight them, these are the CLEAR elites at Lightweight. Ricky Burns may have fought people who have fought at that level or held belts in the past, but that doesn't mean Ricky Burns is Elite/world class level, yet, does it? So until he fights one of those who are, now, not in the past, now, if not fights all of them, and maybe wins one or two, he will remain domestic level, regardless of the WBO belt he holds.

He is relatively unknown, apart from in the UK. It's time to step up and prove his worth.

I repeat, he is domestic level now, and if he doesn't fight one of the three, he will remain at domestic level.



QUICK! Sign into your other accounts so you can agree with yourself and pretend your right!

RICKY BURNS, yes, your bum buddy Ricky Burns, IS domestic level and until he fights at the level we are talking about, elite/world class, he will REMAIN a domestic level fighter. He has obviously cleaned up domestically, but that still makes him a domestic level fighter, all be it, the cherry on the top of domestic level, but still domestic level.

And, lastly, the funniest thing in all of this, is that you confirmed to me in my response to Strike, the people that are on here. You read and cherry picked partially, so you can turn it into something its not and never was and try and cause an argument for everybody else to get involved in.

Well done. [/QUOTE
ok son, say hi to your mum for me
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:39 PM   #54
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

Question.

Is Ricky Burns World Class at Super Feather? (he beat Martinez at SF)

I'd say yes. That was his old weight, he beat Martinez in 2010 was it?

Is Ricky Burns World Class at Lightweight? The weight he is at AT THE MOMENT?

I'd say no, until he fights a top 3 in the division. At the moment, still domestic level currently, soon to test himself at the level. Broner, Vasquez, De Marco are the fighters.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:54 PM   #55
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
Question.

Is Ricky Burns World Class at Super Feather? (he beat Martinez at SF)

I'd say yes. That was his old weight, he beat Martinez in 2010 was it?

Is Ricky Burns World Class at Lightweight? The weight he is at AT THE MOMENT?

I'd say no, until he fights a top 3 in the division. At the moment, still domestic level currently, soon to test himself at the level. Broner, Vasquez, De Marco are the fighters.
Broner hasn't even fought at the weight yet,so by your logic,how the **** is he a "top guy"?
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:40 PM   #56
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

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Broner hasn't even fought at the weight yet,so by your logic,how the **** is he a "top guy"?
hah craney = gobshite
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:44 PM   #57
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Abril would Box the ears off of Ricky if they ever meet.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:44 AM   #58
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Default Re: Ricky Burns opponent

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
Question.

Is Ricky Burns World Class at Super Feather? (he beat Martinez at SF)

I'd say yes. That was his old weight, he beat Martinez in 2010 was it?

Is Ricky Burns World Class at Lightweight? The weight he is at AT THE MOMENT?

I'd say no, until he fights a top 3 in the division. At the moment, still domestic level currently, soon to test himself at the level. Broner, Vasquez, De Marco are the fighters.
It doesn't work like that. Either he is a world level fighter or he isn't. You can say before RJJ moved to heavy that he was too small, you wouldn't say before the Ruiz fight "He is a domestic level fighter", you would say "He's world class, but he hasn't proven he can handle being at this higher weight".

Burns is PROVEN to be above domestic level as a fighter and no he doesn't need to be one of the best three in the division to show that. He should be trying to do that, but beating a former World Champion at the weight already shows that he is operating around world level for this division. He could lose to all three of the big names you mentioned and still be above domestic level but not elite of the division level. The two things are mutually exclusive.

Sadly he is instead in an absolute joke fight.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:50 AM   #59
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Which proves my point does it not Strike?

I've said Ricky Burns has proved he is a step above Domestic level, but it's now time to step up. The fact of the matter is, he is being held down and he really is fighting at domestic level.....the next fight shows you this.

So the way I see it is, its time to step up, he has wiped the floor with domestic level, but HE IS STILL, whether you like it or not, being made to fight at domestic level......so what is he?

A domestic level fighter.....all be it one who deserves much better now.

I feel sorry for Ricky Burns myself.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:11 AM   #60
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Craney - what the hell are you talking about, Burns being domestic level?

Domestic means you only fight people from your own shores. With Katsidis and Moses he beat two former world champions/challengers comfortably. Mitchell was rated at 4 by the Ring magazine, he's a quality lightweight who beat the European champion - Murray.

Burns has three good wins well above domestic level at lightweight. Stop kidding yourself, you have to fight a top three fighter in your division to establish yourself as world class?

Would you by that reasoning say Broner is not world class as he has not fought anyone anywhere near the top three, in any weight?

In fact, Broner's best win was a scrappy, close points against Ponce De Leon, a natural featherweight.

If you, honestly, do not believe Ricky Burns is a world class fighter, I cannot take you seriously.
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