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Old 07-14-2007, 06:00 AM   #1
McGrain
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Default Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

From A Flame Of Pure Fire: Jack Dempsey and the Roaring 20'S when Dempsey's seemingly mad new manager tries to fix up green Dempsey with post prime Langford: "I've seen Langford. He's to good for me right now. I need more experience..."

Anyone know which Langford fight Dempsey saw or what he mad of Sam?
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Old 07-14-2007, 06:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
From A Flame Of Pure Fire: Jack Dempsey and the Roaring 20'S when Dempsey's seemingly mad new manager tries to fix up green Dempsey with post prime Langford: "I've seen Langford. He's to good for me right now. I need more experience..."

Anyone know which Langford fight Dempsey saw or what he mad of Sam?
It is true. A pre Jess Willard Jack Dempsey wasn’t ready for a slightly past his prime Langford. Langford was so good; he was being turned away by mangers in the 1920’s when he was well past his prime.
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

Dempsey almost certainly watched Langford fight during Sam's visit to Denver, in the summer and fall of 1915, against Jack Thompson, Jim Johnson, and Sam McVey. Since Langford went 20 rounds with McVea, and 15 more with Johnson, Jack would have seen a great deal of him. (My old copy of the 1957 Ring Record Book indicates that while Dempsey was also active in Colorado at the time, he had no matches during the weeks Langford was boxing in Denver, so it's reasonable to assume that's when he saw Langford.)
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

Dont forget the movie theaters also. Dempsey could have seen Langford there also. They DID film Langford's fights. But most of it was lost.
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

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Dont forget the movie theaters also. Dempsey could have seen Langford there also. They DID film Langford's fights. But most of it was lost.
It's possible, but not likely, given the fact that transport of boxing footage across state lines was banned after Johnson/Jeffries in 1910. (This law certainly didn't promote the filming and preservation of boxing films, and is probably a major reason why none of Harry Greb's matches have come to light. The places to look for this historic bouts is in the states themselves where they actually took place.)
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
Dempsey almost certainly watched Langford fight during Sam's visit to Denver, in the summer and fall of 1915, against Jack Thompson, Jim Johnson, and Sam McVey. Since Langford went 20 rounds with McVea, and 15 more with Johnson, Jack would have seen a great deal of him. (My old copy of the 1957 Ring Record Book indicates that while Dempsey was also active in Colorado at the time, he had no matches during the weeks Langford was boxing in Denver, so it's reasonable to assume that's when he saw Langford.)

This is great info, thanks.
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

The Hell I feared no man. There was one man, he was even smaller than I, I wouldn’t fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford.”

Jack Dempsey
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

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Originally Posted by janitor
The Hell I feared no man. There was one man, he was even smaller than I, I wouldn’t fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford.”

Jack Dempsey
Reading about Jack, i'm quite shocked by the lack of Machismo in his words. He's quite self deprocating. What's your guess as to how he would have fared with Langford?
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Reading about Jack, i'm quite shocked by the lack of Machismo in his words. He's quite self deprocating. What's your guess as to how he would have fared with Langford?
Peak to peak, I believe Dempsey would have kayoed Langford late. Jack didn't like to fight tall, so he might have had significant trouble with Langford. But styles decide fights, and Langford may have had a good one for Dempsey.

In speaking about his kayo loss to Schmeling, Louis said, "I thought I was hot shit!" Dempsey never believed that about himself. Louis was already a sizable person when he began boxing, but Dempsey, not quite so much. He also probably lost a number of unrecorded fights as Kid Blackie, hardly a background to make somebody overwhelmingly ****y. Sam Langford was a prodigy, but Dempsey had to evolve considerably.

Langford wasn't exactly fearless either, explicitly going on record as not wanting to face Jim Jeffries. Sam and Jack both had the sense to know their limits against top-flight competition prematurely. (Later on, Mickey Walker had the same sense not to commit suicide against Panama Joe Gans. There's bravery, then there's stupidity.)

As self-effacing as Dempsey could be, he made his fear really work in his favor. While I don't think Langford would have been in the least bit afraid of Dempsey, I expect that Jack would be scared shitless of Sam, and that's probably the worst state of mind for Langford to be facing him in. Dempsey was as dangerous as a cornered animal when scared.
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Old 07-14-2007, 02:10 PM   #10
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Reading about Jack, i'm quite shocked by the lack of Machismo in his words. He's quite self deprocating. What's your guess as to how he would have fared with Langford?
At the point when the fight was proposed the green Dempsey would have been roughly handeled IMO.

At their respective peaks Dempsey would probably win but it is by no means a given. There is no heavyweight in history that I would not give Langford a good chance against at his peak.

That is how highly I rate him.
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Old 07-14-2007, 02:51 PM   #11
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

1916 Langford slaughters the 1916 dempsey

1919 Dempsey wins late had fought stoppage vs a 1910 peak Langford.

btw Dempsey was very raw when he refused to match with Langford but at the same time he also turned down Gunboat Smith and Frank Moran- two legit contenders- he told his manager that he was crazy and he didn't want a serious challenge yet
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Old 07-14-2007, 02:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Anyone Know When (If) Dempsey Saw Langford Fight?

Maybe, But Dempsey was traveling from State to State at the time. He was often on the road. And the movie theaters were not expension to go to at the time, 25$.
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