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Old 10-24-2012, 06:17 PM   #1
dempsey1234
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Default The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

Are S&C coaches that neccessary? I mean I don't believe Chavez sr, Duran, Arguello, marciano, Robinson had any Alex Arisa types around in their days. Sure I agree the strength and conditioning is important, but I dont think they are essential for a beginning 4rd fighter.
A beginner should work primarily on his skills, any good coach can train a kid to go four rds. I have been told that when you have an S&C coach the fighter has to go do his S&C work first then he does the boxing, that it burns the kid out with too much work, any thoughts?
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Are S&C coaches that neccessary? I mean I don't believe Chavez sr, Duran, Arguello, marciano, Robinson had any Alex Arisa types around in their days. Sure I agree the strength and conditioning is important, but I dont think they are essential for a beginning 4rd fighter.
A beginner should work primarily on his skills, any good coach can train a kid to go four rds. I have been told that when you have an S&C coach the fighter has to go do his S&C work first then he does the boxing, that it burns the kid out with too much work, any thoughts?
Like in any area of work there are bad trainers and good ones.The one who told u that may have been in involved with an idiot,God knows i know a couple of S&C trainers who are absolute garbage,and they do stupid shit all the time ,but i know many gret ones as well.
S&C trainers are essential to todays sports,including boxing.Boxing trainers mostly dont know the difference between aerobic and anaerobic endurance let alone something more complex.
But this thing where people mention old school fighters and their methods of training really has to stop.Just because they did something and were champions doesnt mean its right.
Running in army boots miles and miles every day and doing 10000 pushups and situps isnt doing anybody good.
A young and up coming fighter educate himself in the begining ofc.There are a a lot of s&c boards.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

In the old days, the trainer was also the strength and conditioning coach as well, which was good because everybody was on the same page. Today a fighter 'trains' 8 hours a day, which is too much, and only a part of that is spent with his boxing trainer. He spends time with a nutritionist, a cardio coach, a strength coach and so on. many of these guys don't know anything about boxing and don't understand a very simple truth: Just because you are in shape to run a marathon, or swim 2000 laps, or whatever, it doesn't mean you are in shape to fight 10 rounds.
So you get what I see every time I watch the fights...muscular guys that look like they should be able to fight, but who have very pedestrian skills, are boxing dummies, and, for all the people getting paid to get them in fighting shape, seem to get tired pretty quickly.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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In the old days, the trainer was also the strength and conditioning coach as well, which was good because everybody was on the same page. Today a fighter 'trains' 8 hours a day, which is too much, and only a part of that is spent with his boxing trainer. He spends time with a nutritionist, a cardio coach, a strength coach and so on. many of these guys don't know anything about boxing and don't understand a very simple truth: Just because you are in shape to run a marathon, or swim 2000 laps, or whatever, it doesn't mean you are in shape to fight 10 rounds.
So you get what I see every time I watch the fights...muscular guys that look like they should be able to fight, but who have very pedestrian skills, are boxing dummies, and, for all the people getting paid to get them in fighting shape, seem to get tired pretty quickly.
Ignorance at its best.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

Generally a fighter cant afford a S&C coach until hes had a bit of success anyways, so yeah
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
In the old days, the trainer was also the strength and conditioning coach as well, which was good because everybody was on the same page. Today a fighter 'trains' 8 hours a day, which is too much, and only a part of that is spent with his boxing trainer. He spends time with a nutritionist, a cardio coach, a strength coach and so on. many of these guys don't know anything about boxing and don't understand a very simple truth: Just because you are in shape to run a marathon, or swim 2000 laps, or whatever, it doesn't mean you are in shape to fight 10 rounds.
So you get what I see every time I watch the fights...muscular guys that look like they should be able to fight, but who have very pedestrian skills, are boxing dummies, and, for all the people getting paid to get them in fighting shape, seem to get tired pretty quickly.
Stick to talking about boxing technique because you're clueless on this. No S+C coach worth a damn is going to have anyone train 8 hours a day, an S+C coach covers cardio and usually nutrition and their primary responsibility is to provide sports specific supplementary training. Their goal is to get the athletes body in peak condition for their sport, do you honestly think they'd neglect to add the boxing training into the equation?
Why would a muscular guy look like he should be able to fight? Boxing is a skill like playing Tennis is, it's got nothing to do with appearance. I guess you equate an S+C coach with a bodybuilder trainer? Just educate yourself a bit.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:35 AM   #7
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Stick to talking about boxing technique because you're clueless on this. No S+C coach worth a damn is going to have anyone train 8 hours a day, an S+C coach covers cardio and usually nutrition and their primary responsibility is to provide sports specific supplementary training. Their goal is to get the athletes body in peak condition for their sport, do you honestly think they'd neglect to add the boxing training into the equation?
Why would a muscular guy look like he should be able to fight? Boxing is a skill like playing Tennis is, it's got nothing to do with appearance. I guess you equate an S+C coach with a bodybuilder trainer? Just educate yourself a bit.
You both make good points, I am sure he didnt mean "8hrs" a day. I manage an 18yr old boxer. In one of his fights he had an S&C coach working him, when he fought he said he didn't feel strong. So for the next fight we worked the old school way of primarily working on skills, and preparing for a four round fight. The kid felt great and was the happiest he's ever been. Maybe the answer is to have the present boxing coaches educate themselves on different and improved training methods and techniques.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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You both make good points, I am sure he didnt mean "8hrs" a day. I manage an 18yr old boxer. In one of his fights he had an S&C coach working him, when he fought he said he didn't feel strong. So for the next fight we worked the old school way of primarily working on skills, and preparing for a four round fight. The kid felt great and was the happiest he's ever been. Maybe the answer is to have the present boxing coaches educate themselves on different and improved training methods and techniques.
How was his training periodised? Was he trying to peak for a certain competition or for that particular fight?
Driven athletes tend to work too hard so less is usually better in their cases. There's science behind training the body, a good S+C coach is going to be able to get the fitness side of things to a far higher level than a boxing coach ever could. The boxing coach should be there to teach the skills that pay the bills and the S+C coach is there to support that.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
You both make good points, I am sure he didnt mean "8hrs" a day. I manage an 18yr old boxer. In one of his fights he had an S&C coach working him, when he fought he said he didn't feel strong. So for the next fight we worked the old school way of primarily working on skills, and preparing for a four round fight. The kid felt great and was the happiest he's ever been. Maybe the answer is to have the present boxing coaches educate themselves on different and improved training methods and techniques.
Reason they are used most of the time is, the Coach is being overworked, Big stable. I tried it a couple of times, an absolute waist of time, caused Havoc.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:48 AM   #10
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
You both make good points, I am sure he didnt mean "8hrs" a day. I manage an 18yr old boxer. In one of his fights he had an S&C coach working him, when he fought he said he didn't feel strong. So for the next fight we worked the old school way of primarily working on skills, and preparing for a four round fight. The kid felt great and was the happiest he's ever been. Maybe the answer is to have the present boxing coaches educate themselves on different and improved training methods and techniques.
Who knows what the problem was.Usually from my experience boxers who start to work with s&c trainers resist a lot of stuff in training and its a pain in the ass to work with them.
Boxing coaches should get educated ofcourse,but thats not gonna happen,too much ego and pride.
Not everybody is Pedro Diaz.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Who knows what the problem was.Usually from my experience boxers who start to work with s&c trainers resist a lot of stuff in training and its a pain in the ass to work with them.
Boxing coaches should get educated ofcourse,but thats not gonna happen,too much ego and pride.
Not everybody is Pedro Diaz.
In a lot of cases pecho, with the Ego and Pride you have a point, thats both ways. Its a Killer, but Ive found coaches do listen, they are trying to achieve the best for there charge, its them that are losing out.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:16 AM   #12
pecho26
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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In a lot of cases pecho, with the Ego and Pride you have a point, thats both ways. Its a Killer, but Ive found coaches do listen, they are trying to achieve the best for there charge, its them that are losing out.
Yea ofc it works both ways but here where i live s&c coaches are not welcome in boxing.There are a LOT of coaches who dont allow any outside interference.
The best boxing coach in our country is the worst,he wrote an article where he blames s&c coaches to ruin boxing,that its their fault the rounds are 12 not 15 because of gassed fighters,that weights are uselles in boxing,he conects everything with bodybuilding,i couldnt believe it.
The most shocking thing he wrote was that s&c coaches were the main reason for downfall of Mike Tyson.
And the theme of that article was Specific strength training in Boxing.It was God awful.
My ex-coach allowed me to work with one boxer in my old gym but he doesnt ask for advice at all,he does moronical things all the time.I lost my patience explaining things to him.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

I now have a trainer who wants to learn new ways to do things or at least is open to new ideas if it helps. The S&C coach we had worked in pro hockey and other professional sports. The kid we are talking about is 18, he is fighting @ welter, he has weighed, '45, '45 and 46. The kid is growing, and eventually he will be a solid '47pdr. Right now he doesn't need to make 140, which is what the S&C coach is stressing that the kid can make '40. Makes me wonder about the S&C coaches, do they understand boxing as well as they understand the human body.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

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Makes me wonder about the S&C coaches, do they understand boxing as well as they understand the human body.
Just because you have an issue with one guy's knowledge doesn't mean they're all the same. If you find a boxing coach that's shit, do you automatically assume every coach is the same and doesn't know boxing?
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: The ATG fighter's didnt need no stinkin' Strength and conditioners

I like the way most Am coaches are the S&C coach,trainer,cornerman + mentor/ father figure all rolled into one.

If i went pro i'd have one coach, less people to pay as well
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