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Old 10-24-2012, 09:17 AM   #31
withoutwire
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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Originally Posted by Sanddy View Post
Bodybuilders should drink protein shake because protein shake is good nutrition source. Boxers should also need this nutrition so they should drink protein shake for muscles. SO in my opinion protein shake is must.
Wow man are you a scientist?
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:17 AM   #32
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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Originally Posted by Sanddy View Post
Bodybuilders should drink protein shake because protein shake is good nutrition source. Boxers should also need this nutrition so they should drink protein shake for muscles. SO in my opinion protein shake is must.
Huh? Bodybuilders DO drink shakes. The REASON for it is its convenience and the (believed whether true or not) is that whey ( pronounced way) is a fast digesting protein which breaks down to amino acids to repair muscles. When you do any kind of weight lifting (calisthenics or otherwise) you're actually tearing your muscle fibers (micro tears) which is why they come back stronger if only slightly. Any way back to the topic, again its not a good source of nutrition (unless its a meal replacement specifically) its the convenience of getting certain grams of protein into your body quickly and the whole digestion thing.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:19 AM   #33
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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Originally Posted by Sanddy View Post
Bodybuilders should drink protein shake because protein shake is good nutrition source. Boxers should also need this nutrition so they should drink protein shake for muscles. SO in my opinion protein shake is must.
This is a BOXING forum not BB.. Depending on your size (IMO) you dont NEED them.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:10 AM   #34
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

If it's true that 1 g of protein per pound of body weight is ideal, getting about half of that from whey powder + milk alone makes it a lot easier for me to reach that daily goal. However, after reading "How Much Protein?" by Brad Pilon, it seems like 70-120 g is the ideal amount. I think that was more about there being a lack of evidence that anything above 120 g of protein improves muscle growth, though. Not sure if it applies to trying to maintain muscle on a caloric deficit.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:43 AM   #35
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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Originally Posted by Brand NOOBian View Post
If it's true that 1 g of protein per pound of body weight is ideal, getting about half of that from whey powder + milk alone makes it a lot easier for me to reach that daily goal. However, after reading "How Much Protein?" by Brad Pilon, it seems like 70-120 g is the ideal amount. I think that was more about there being a lack of evidence that anything above 120 g of protein improves muscle growth, though. Not sure if it applies to trying to maintain muscle on a caloric deficit.
I would assume it does considering you're lacking food (in general). Ive also never heard that 70-120. What i have heard is 1.5-2 for mass building and 1-1.5 for maintaining.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:50 AM   #36
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

^^
You heard wrong. You don't need anymore protein if your gaining weight or maintaing. You need more calories to gainweight. As long as your getting enough protein then those extra cals can come from fat or carbs or protein.
Must people won't NEED protein shakes because they get enough protein from whole foods so don't need to supplement. But if for some reason you are not getting enough protein then yeah shakes are good.

Only reason i think protein from food is better then shakes is just because the food fills me up more then the shake and when trying to lose weight or maintain weight id prefer feeling more full then hungry.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:28 AM   #37
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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Originally Posted by pichuchu View Post
^^
You heard wrong. You don't need anymore protein if your gaining weight or maintaing. You need more calories to gainweight. As long as your getting enough protein then those extra cals can come from fat or carbs or protein.
Must people won't NEED protein shakes because they get enough protein from whole foods so don't need to supplement. But if for some reason you are not getting enough protein then yeah shakes are good.

Only reason i think protein from food is better then shakes is just because the food fills me up more then the shake and when trying to lose weight or maintain weight id prefer feeling more full then hungry.
Lets say specifically for a boxer trying to maintain weight/muscle mass, how much protein is "enough"?



And here's one excerpt for the 70-120g of protein:

Quote:
In a study published in the scientific journal ‘Medicine Science, Sports and Exercise’, 2 groups of people were asked to follow weight-training programs [Burke DG, 2003].

Both groups followed the exact same high volume, heavy load resistance training workout program for 8 full weeks.

The only difference between the groups was that one group consisted of people who have all been vegetarians for at least the last 3 years of their lives. They were either lacto-ovo (milk and eggs only) or even stricter forms of vegetarians. The other group consisted of people who ate the traditional North American diet consisting of all forms of meat.

The vegetarian group ate almost 450 less calories per day than the nonvegetarian subjects, while the non-veggie group ate around 1.75 times more protein than the veggie subjects (79 grams per day versus 138.5 grams per day). Neither group took any form of post-workout supplement other than creatine.

From there, the two groups were each divided in two again. This time with people either taking creatine or not taking any form of supplement.

So the study design ended up looking like this:

* Group 1: VEGETERIAN + NO CREATINE

* Group 2: VEGETRAIAN + CREATINE

* Group 3: NON-VEGETARIAN + NO CREATINE

* Group 4: NON-VEGETARIAN + CREATINE

By the end of this study all four groups had gained similar amounts of lean mass (between roughly 2-5 pounds, the exact amount we would expect from a resistance training program of this length). The only group that was significantly different was the vegetarian plus creatine group, who gained slightly more muscle than the non-vegetarian plus creatine group.

This research illustrates that muscle growth is possible without eating high amounts of protein, and also suggests that once minimum protein (and calorie) requirements are met, adding more protein and more calories does not seem to increase the total amount of lean mass that is gained from a resistance training program.

From this research we can see that while 79 grams of protein per day was enough to allow for muscle growth, 138.5 grams of protein per day did not promote any ADDITIONAL muscle growth. This evidence is in keeping with the previous studies, in which 70-120 grams of protein was enough to allow for an impressive amount of muscle growth.
And another one:

Quote:
In a research study published in 2002 by Rozenek et al, 73 healthy men were assigned to an 8-week workout program and divided into three diet groups.

• Group 1 consumed an extra 2010 Calories per day that included an extra 106 grams of protein.

• Group 2 consumed an extra 2010 Calories but only 24 extra grams of protein.

• Group 3 did the same 8 week long workout program, but didn’t have to drink the extra 2010 calories.

…Luckily the people in this specific trial managed to drink all of their shakes AND eat their normal meals. After 8 weeks all 3 groups made significant gains in fatfree mass. The high protein group gained a little over 6 pounds, the Carbohydrate group that only received an extra 24 g of protein gained almost 7.5 pounds of lean mass and the group who did not receive any supplements still gained over 3 pounds of fat free mass.

Let’s say that again.

Between the two groups who took extra protein, the group who took LESS extra protein gained MORE muscle.

To put it into perspective, the group getting no supplements gained a little over 3 pounds of fat-free mass and dropped about 2 pounds of fat while eating roughly 2,400 Calories every day. The other two groups gained between 6 and 7 pounds of fat-free mass, didn’t lose any fat, and were eating roughly 4,500 Calories every day. The amount of protein clearly had nothing to do with the weight gain as the lower protein group gained more mass than the high protein group.

Hopefully by now you are starting to see a trend. No matter how the story is spun, if you are working out, taking a little protein, a lot of protein, protein with carbs, protein with over 2000 extra total calories per day, or no protein at all you should expect to gain about 2-7 pounds of lean mass after roughly 2-4 months of working out.

Considering our ‘baseline’ muscle gain from working out alone was 2-5 pounds of muscle, these results hardly seem to support the need for post-workout protein, or high protein diets.

There seems to be evidence to suggest that a slightly higher range of protein intake (in the 70-120 grams per day range) is beneficial, but anything above this amount does not seem to increase the muscle building effects of a weight training.

*What
 you
 need
 to
 know:

 The 
high 
calorie
 groups
 drank 
their
 shakes 
in 
the morning
 and 
at
 night
 (this 
was
 not
 a
 a post‐workout 
trial).
The
 group 
with 
the
best
 gains
...still
 consumed
 roughly
 120 
grams
 of
 protein
 per 
day.
 There
 was
no
 mention 
of
 the 
funding
 source
 or 
the 
source 
of 
the
 supplements 
studied.
These are just a few examples though. I'm curious what others think of this.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pichuchu View Post
^^
You heard wrong. You don't need anymore protein if your gaining weight or maintaing. You need more calories to gainweight. As long as your getting enough protein then those extra cals can come from fat or carbs or protein.
Must people won't NEED protein shakes because they get enough protein from whole foods so don't need to supplement. But if for some reason you are not getting enough protein then yeah shakes are good.

Only reason i think protein from food is better then shakes is just because the food fills me up more then the shake and when trying to lose weight or maintain weight id prefer feeling more full then hungry.
All that is a factor. If you think im wrong email Jim Stoppani
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:18 PM   #39
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

I'd rather trust numerous studies proving that excess protein is not needed for bodybuilders or endurance athletes etc.
And name dropping dnt mean shit because i can also get layne norton quotes and video;s (youtube them) saying excessive protein is not a NEED.

Most athletes etc follow a % split of carbs/proteins and fats. Now obviously a boxer who consumes more overall calories then a person sitting at a desk (and they both follow the same % split) will consume more protein.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:40 PM   #40
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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Originally Posted by pichuchu View Post
I'd rather trust numerous studies proving that excess protein is not needed for bodybuilders or endurance athletes etc.
And name dropping dnt mean shit because i can also get layne norton quotes and video;s (youtube them) saying excessive protein is not a NEED.

Most athletes etc follow a % split of carbs/proteins and fats. Now obviously a boxer who consumes more overall calories then a person sitting at a desk (and they both follow the same % split) will consume more protein.
That's why following % splits is retarded.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:57 PM   #41
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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That's why following % splits is retarded.
I agree it isnt optimal/ ideal but imo its better then the typical high protwin low carb and low fat diet most people think is needed. Its my personal opinion that a % amount of cals should be dedicated to fats to get minimum of.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:13 PM   #42
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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Originally Posted by pichuchu View Post
I agree it isnt optimal/ ideal but imo its better then the typical high protwin low carb and low fat diet most people think is needed. Its my personal opinion that a % amount of cals should be dedicated to fats to get minimum of.
I don't like any sort of percentage/ratio tbh. Everybody is going to have needs that differ. For example, if somebody has huge energy demands and follows the generic 40/40/20 ratio, they are likely going to be taking in a ton more protein than is necessary. You could just use that extra protein on carbs/fats.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:01 AM   #43
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

They are certainly not a must. I read the above posts dealing with low amounts of protein ingestion with interest, and tend to agree that one does not need massive amounts of protein to grow.

At school all I did was train with weights...I had absolutely no clue as to diet, and didn't eat any differently than what any other kid would do. I didn't eat any extra protein whatsoever. I still put on quality muscle though.
One could argue and say that had I ingested extra protein, I would have grown bigger and that may or may not be true, but I did grow, that much is absolute fact.

So yeah, I don't think huge amounts of protein consumption is really necessary.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:23 AM   #44
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

Yes they are a must.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:42 AM   #45
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Default Re: Are Protein Shakes a must?

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Originally Posted by pecho26 View Post
Yes they are a must.
Care to substantiate that claim?
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