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Old 10-25-2012, 06:45 PM   #1
DaveyboyEssexUK
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Default Joe Calzaghe

My view of Calzaghe is that he was and is a true World Class Boxer. I prefer to be objective when looking at a boxers skills, and to me Calzaghe was the full package, his jab, workrate, hand speed, foot movement, punch power, agileness,punch resistance and recovery rate, ring craft and on top of that his confidence were excellent, yes thats right i said punch power in that sentance, in his prime Calzaghe had a powerful punch, after his fight with Eubank in which he put Eubank on the deck in round 1, Eubank said ”it was the hardest punch ive ever felt in my life” and Eubank had one of of the toughest chins going, so do your maths.Calzaghe`s style was Unique and bamboozled many an opponent, at some point in his fight with Calzaghe Kessler said to his cornermen "i dont know what to do" and his corner said "keep attacking and hitting him hard" After round 8 in his fight with Calzaghe Jones had this to say to his cornermen "I'm trying to get him but I can't get him!" and all they could say back was "I know ... I know baby.
Admittedly Calzaghes punch power decreased over time due to hand and wrist injuries to which he had to partly change his style,many critics are ignorant to this fact and state that he slaps, well if he slaps why did`nt the likes of Lacy and Hopkins walk through those slaps with impunity??? At the Calzaghe - Jones Post fight interview Jones said “He won the fight, he definitely won the fight, those pitty-pats were a little harder than I thought. … I couldn’t figure him out.” Calzaghe was nowhere near his peak when fighting the likes of Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones Jr,his hands were brittle, his punch power long gone, yet Calzaghe outboxed the lot. His defence wasnt the best and was sloppy at times but as the old saying goes the best defence is a good offense, his speed, in and out style and work rate countered this issue to a point, aswell as having a strong chin.What`s ironic is that Calzaghe mostly fought better with his hands down rather than up, here`s an example : Calzaghe was put on the canvas four times in his career, every knockdown was up close and he was caught with a right hand on his left side the main factor why he went down was because he did`nt see the punch coming with his guard up. With his hands down he could see everything coming.

What i don`t understand is why many boxing fans don`t respect a Great Boxer, many critics ignorantly and biasly ignore the fact that Calzaghe had/has the tools that a boxer needs in his armoury.
Punch power is not the be all and end all of boxing, boxing is the be all and end all of boxing!! That is why even without the punch power Calzaghe beat his opponents, A true boxer with a tough chin will always beat and outlive a brawler and a puncher in the ring, one example is Hopkins vs Pavlik.

Now Jones and Hopkins are Greats but how can some say that Calzaghe is not?, critics say Calzaghes opposition was weak, lets have a look.

Chris Eubank: To beat Eubank is something special, critics can say Eubank was past it aswell as being affected by the Watson fight yet he gave Joe one of his hardest fights and took him into the trenches like he said he would, to put Eubank down in the first round is great accomplishment. For critics to make an excuse that Eubank was past it is daft as any critic could dish Jones in his fight against a past it Mike McCallum who gave Jones problems in their fight. Compare the Eubank fight to the Hopkins fight which one would you prefer to watch?? The Eubank fight everytime! at least he came to fight.

Juan Carlos Gimenez Ferreyra: this guy was one heck of a durable fighter with a rock solid chin and good recovery rate and had taken Duran , Benn and Eubank the distance and had never been stopped in his entire carreer. Calzaghe beat him into submission and he retired in his corner after round 9.

Branco Sobot was a replacement for American Tarick Salmaci who pulled out, Calzaghe did what he had to do with a TKO in round 3.

Robin Reid 26-1-1: Former World Champion 26-1-1 at the time of the fight, thats no bums record at all. Reid was well known for his counter boxing and punching , many claim the decision was wrong,personally i disagree, Calzaghe won that fight and won the first 4 rounds and then the left hand injury occured making the fight harder for him he still did enough to win, it was close but Calzaghe won it, though many dirty critics would jump on such a fight and try and use it as a weapon which is very sad. If Calzaghe hadnt had that hand injury he would probably have won the fight by UD. Here Reid`s own words from a BBC article after his fight with calzaghe BBC Sport Sunday, February 14, 1999 Reid said: "I can't argue with the decision. Joe was the better boxer on the night and I knew I could not catch him for speed." Also Calzaghe wanted this fight when Reid was the World Champ and was rather angry that he did`nt get the fight at that time.

Rick Thornbury 23-2-0: Aussie Rick Thornbury was a mandatory challenge, and was in his prime at the time of the fight, hats off to Rick who managed to stay in their due to his tough chin to get him through, although he was clearly beaten by the Champ and put on the deck at one point.

David Starrie: 22-1-0: Starie ran round the ring like a chicken and would not engage the champ, yet critics jumped on Calzaghe cos he didnt KO Starie, how is one meant to KO an opponent who is not willing to put themselves in the line of fire??? The only reason this fight was bad is because Starie came to survive, its no fault on Calzaghe.

Omar Sheika 20-1-0: Top contender Sheika had American critics backing him saying he was gonna beat Calzaghe, he was no push over as he had beaten Glen Johnson in an eliminator for Calzaghe`s title. Sheika got schooled and blooded and got his first TKO defeat, and yes the end was premature but the result is in no doubt.

Richie Woodall 26-2-0: Former World Champ who had defeated Malinga for the WBC Super Middleweight Crown, Woddall had also beaten Silvio Branco who later became a World champ. Woodall was also an Olympic Bronze Medallist and was kept out the final by Roy Jones Jr himself. Woodall very underated by many American critics, Woodall was a very good boxer with a very effective jab in his prime and had a knack for beating southpaws.

Mario Veit 30-0-0: Veit 30 fights undefeated at the time of fighting Calzaghe got bashed out the ring in round 1, just because he was european it did`nt count?? He later got beat by Calzaghe again after climbing the ladder with 15 fights undefeated to get to no 1 spot as mandatory challenger to Calzaghe`s crown, alas he was stopped in round 6 in front of his home crowd. It seems in the prime of his career Calzaghe was the only one who had Veit`s number.

Will McIntyre 29-2-0: Kid Fire was offered this fight as at the time both Antwun Echols and Charles Brewer had turned down the fight. Kid Fire had never been stopped and was reknowned for his granite chin. Kid Fire got put on the deck in round 3 after a constant beating and schooling by Calzaghe, the fight was stopped in round 4. No other fighter got close to doing what Calzaghe did to Kid Fire, at the end of his Career Kid fire did become the IBA Americas Super Middleweight champ.

Lacy IBF World Champ at the time praised by many, got schooled,Calzaghe schooled him one handed! ( a point to be put to the critics who say "Lacy wasnt much anyway" is this " Its easy to be wise after the fight") At The Post Fight Press Conference Dan Birmingham said this about Calzaghe " I don't really want to focus on what Jeff didn't do but tonight you saw a master class from Joe Calzaghe. I have never seen such a magnificent performance as that in America or the world over. You know we have a special southpaw in Winky Wright in our team and Joe's performance ranks up their with any of his performances in the US. His performance was masterful. The distance, the timings, angles were fantastic and I assure you that Joe Calzaghe is the only man in the world who could handle Jeff Lacy in this way. We have no issues and were beaten by a master class of boxing from a well respected fighter" and that Calzaghe’s performance was the most efficient he had witnessed live in more than 30 years in boxing.


Lets also take into account the Evans Ashira fight, Calzaghe broke his left hand in round 3 and went on to win my UD, you cant say that an effort like that isnt backed with class and determination and pure boxing skill??

Charles The Hatchet Brewer was a tough boxer and former IBF World Champ who beat Herol Graham twice, Brewer wanted to fight Jones who instead decided to go up in weight ,Brewer made two further offers during his career but got turned down. Brewer wanted to fight with Hopkins but money was the issue to halt any chance of a fight happening,.I think Charles would have given Hopkins a good fight. Brewer got cheated out twice by officials in his two fights with Sven Ottke.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: Joe Calzaghe

i'll read this when i can't fall asleep.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Joe Calzaghe

stopped reading at first bit of bullshit in the 2nd sentence - 'his jab was excellent' lol errr...

Nevertheless a great Briton that we are proud of, harking to his strengths rather than his weaknesses - an awesome volume fighter with fitness so superlative that it stayed with hmi till his late thirties.

Thats all you need to write if you are being honest.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Joe Calzaghe

Calzaghe definitely has all-time great ability. You don't throw a thousand punches in an entire 12 round fight and still show superb stamina being a journeyman or a scrub. The man had ability, underrated defense/power and great speed. His dedication and ability CAN'T and should not be denied and I'm admittedly his biggest hater on this site.

However, I don't think any of his fans, not even the sane ones(if there are any) would deny that he could have done a lot better with his resume. With that kind of ability you would expect far more publicity and general interest. Sadly his attempts there were poor and he's the only one to blame. Whether British fans like this or not but all big fights and serious recognition occurs in America. Just ask/observe Hamed, Khan, Lewis, Bruno, Hatton and whoever else I'm missing.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:44 PM   #5
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I think Calzaghe had the greatest amount of stamina of any boxer between 160 and 175 in history. He has gears he could shift into that nobody else in those weight categories could evern dream of, and he never stopped. It was probably his greatest attribute. He did also have a relatively good level of durability, he was very quick with his hands and threw many combinations throughout a fight, and he was a ring-general able to read fights and adapt.

The only problem would be one of resume because although he has several descent names on his list its not that strong of a list. Part of this is because of how weak the Super Middleweight division became one Jones and Toney moved up, Hopkins jumped it and Ottke held two titles to ransom in Germany. Also he could have moved up a division sooner but chose not to, and he could have made an extra effort to go to America and make a bigger name for himself around 2000 rather than staying in his comfort zone and wait for the Yanks to come to him.

So, although I consider Calzaghe to be an excellent boxer with skills that could be arguably worthy of being considered All Time Great material, I also dont think he challenged himself as much as he could of. Thus I consider him the boxing equivilent of Matt Le Tissier - highly skilled at what he did but far too happy to remain the "big fish in a small pond".
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:03 PM   #6
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^^It about sums it up for me.^^


(No idea who Matt LeTissier is.)
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:11 PM   #7
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^^It about sums it up for me.^^


(No idea who Matt LeTissier is.)
Soccer. Arguably the most talented English Soccer player there's ever been, good enough to have walked into any team in the world in his prime, but he spent his entire career eating pies and chips at Southampton (far from the giants of Football/Soccer) hardly putting any effort into work but doing just enough to win matches and make people recognize his talents on some level, even if it was only from a position of how much he was wasting it. Hardly anybody in the modern world of Soccer outside of England remembers him now because of that.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:45 PM   #8
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Soccer. Arguably the most talented English Soccer player there's ever been, good enough to have walked into any team in the world in his prime, but he spent his entire career eating pies and chips at Southampton (far from the giants of Football/Soccer) hardly putting any effort into work but doing just enough to win matches and make people recognize his talents on some level, even if it was only from a position of how much he was wasting it. Hardly anybody in the modern world of Soccer outside of England remembers him now because of that.
Ah. Got it.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:31 AM   #9
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Default Re: Joe Calzaghe

Le Tiss, only football player I have heard of better than Alan Shearer for taking penalties. 50 taken, 50 goals.

Le Tiss, who scores goals from corner kicks. Freakish skill level. Calzaghe was often outskilled so he is hardly a Le Tissier. Toney is more a Le Tiss.

I would add though that Matt Le Tit isnt all golden, he was a ball greedy cnut in his time at Southampton. Joe Calzaghe is not a twat like that.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:34 AM   #10
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I think Calzaghe had the greatest amount of stamina of any boxer between 160 and 175 in history. He has gears he could shift into that nobody else in those weight categories could evern dream of, and he never stopped. It was probably his greatest attribute. He did also have a relatively good level of durability, he was very quick with his hands and threw many combinations throughout a fight, and he was a ring-general able to read fights and adapt.

The only problem would be one of resume because although he has several descent names on his list its not that strong of a list. Part of this is because of how weak the Super Middleweight division became one Jones and Toney moved up, Hopkins jumped it and Ottke held two titles to ransom in Germany. Also he could have moved up a division sooner but chose not to, and he could have made an extra effort to go to America and make a bigger name for himself around 2000 rather than staying in his comfort zone and wait for the Yanks to come to him.

So, although I consider Calzaghe to be an excellent boxer with skills that could be arguably worthy of being considered All Time Great material, I also dont think he challenged himself as much as he could of. Thus I consider him the boxing equivilent of Matt Le Tissier - highly skilled at what he did but far too happy to remain the "big fish in a small pond".

Matt Le Tisser??

I think Steven Gerrard would be a fairer comparison
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:36 AM   #11
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Slappy joe fans
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:49 AM   #12
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The fact you have to try and talk up guys like Thornbury, McIntyre and Veit as credible opponents says it all. Especially Veit, he was 30-0 from fighting 4, 6 and 8 rounders against the lowest possible level of bums and journeyman his promoter could find. He had only fought one, yes thats right one, 12 rounder before getting a "World title" shot against Calzaghe, which is quite frankly a joke. Just shows how the "0" is a great marketing tool that reels in guilable fans.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:42 AM   #13
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Default Re: Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by DaveyboyEs***UK View Post
My view of Calzaghe is that he was and is a true World Class Boxer. I prefer to be objective when looking at a boxers skills, and to me Calzaghe was the full package, his jab, workrate, hand speed, foot movement, punch power, agileness,punch resistance and recovery rate, ring craft and on top of that his confidence were excellent, yes thats right i said punch power in that sentance, in his prime Calzaghe had a powerful punch, after his fight with Eubank in which he put Eubank on the deck in round 1, Eubank said ”it was the hardest punch ive ever felt in my life” and Eubank had one of of the toughest chins going, so do your maths.Calzaghe`s style was Unique and bamboozled many an opponent, at some point in his fight with Calzaghe Kessler said to his cornermen "i dont know what to do" and his corner said "keep attacking and hitting him hard" After round 8 in his fight with Calzaghe Jones had this to say to his cornermen "I'm trying to get him but I can't get him!" and all they could say back was "I know ... I know baby.
Admittedly Calzaghes punch power decreased over time due to hand and wrist injuries to which he had to partly change his style,many critics are ignorant to this fact and state that he slaps, well if he slaps why did`nt the likes of Lacy and Hopkins walk through those slaps with impunity??? At the Calzaghe - Jones Post fight interview Jones said “He won the fight, he definitely won the fight, those pitty-pats were a little harder than I thought. … I couldn’t figure him out.” Calzaghe was nowhere near his peak when fighting the likes of Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones Jr,his hands were brittle, his punch power long gone, yet Calzaghe outboxed the lot. His defence wasnt the best and was sloppy at times but as the old saying goes the best defence is a good offense, his speed, in and out style and work rate countered this issue to a point, aswell as having a strong chin.What`s ironic is that Calzaghe mostly fought better with his hands down rather than up, here`s an example : Calzaghe was put on the canvas four times in his career, every knockdown was up close and he was caught with a right hand on his left side the main factor why he went down was because he did`nt see the punch coming with his guard up. With his hands down he could see everything coming.

What i don`t understand is why many boxing fans don`t respect a Great Boxer, many critics ignorantly and biasly ignore the fact that Calzaghe had/has the tools that a boxer needs in his armoury.
Punch power is not the be all and end all of boxing, boxing is the be all and end all of boxing!! That is why even without the punch power Calzaghe beat his opponents, A true boxer with a tough chin will always beat and outlive a brawler and a puncher in the ring, one example is Hopkins vs Pavlik.

Now Jones and Hopkins are Greats but how can some say that Calzaghe is not?, critics say Calzaghes opposition was weak, lets have a look.

Chris Eubank: To beat Eubank is something special, critics can say Eubank was past it aswell as being affected by the Watson fight yet he gave Joe one of his hardest fights and took him into the trenches like he said he would, to put Eubank down in the first round is great accomplishment. For critics to make an excuse that Eubank was past it is daft as any critic could dish Jones in his fight against a past it Mike McCallum who gave Jones problems in their fight. Compare the Eubank fight to the Hopkins fight which one would you prefer to watch?? The Eubank fight everytime! at least he came to fight.

Juan Carlos Gimenez Ferreyra: this guy was one heck of a durable fighter with a rock solid chin and good recovery rate and had taken Duran , Benn and Eubank the distance and had never been stopped in his entire carreer. Calzaghe beat him into submission and he retired in his corner after round 9.

Branco Sobot was a replacement for American Tarick Salmaci who pulled out, Calzaghe did what he had to do with a TKO in round 3.

Robin Reid 26-1-1: Former World Champion 26-1-1 at the time of the fight, thats no bums record at all. Reid was well known for his counter boxing and punching , many claim the decision was wrong,personally i disagree, Calzaghe won that fight and won the first 4 rounds and then the left hand injury occured making the fight harder for him he still did enough to win, it was close but Calzaghe won it, though many dirty critics would jump on such a fight and try and use it as a weapon which is very sad. If Calzaghe hadnt had that hand injury he would probably have won the fight by UD. Here Reid`s own words from a BBC article after his fight with calzaghe BBC Sport Sunday, February 14, 1999 Reid said: "I can't argue with the decision. Joe was the better boxer on the night and I knew I could not catch him for speed." Also Calzaghe wanted this fight when Reid was the World Champ and was rather angry that he did`nt get the fight at that time.

Rick Thornbury 23-2-0: Aussie Rick Thornbury was a mandatory challenge, and was in his prime at the time of the fight, hats off to Rick who managed to stay in their due to his tough chin to get him through, although he was clearly beaten by the Champ and put on the deck at one point.

David Starrie: 22-1-0: Starie ran round the ring like a chicken and would not engage the champ, yet critics jumped on Calzaghe cos he didnt KO Starie, how is one meant to KO an opponent who is not willing to put themselves in the line of fire??? The only reason this fight was bad is because Starie came to survive, its no fault on Calzaghe.

Omar Sheika 20-1-0: Top contender Sheika had American critics backing him saying he was gonna beat Calzaghe, he was no push over as he had beaten Glen Johnson in an eliminator for Calzaghe`s title. Sheika got schooled and blooded and got his first TKO defeat, and yes the end was premature but the result is in no doubt.

Richie Woodall 26-2-0: Former World Champ who had defeated Malinga for the WBC Super Middleweight Crown, Woddall had also beaten Silvio Branco who later became a World champ. Woodall was also an Olympic Bronze Medallist and was kept out the final by Roy Jones Jr himself. Woodall very underated by many American critics, Woodall was a very good boxer with a very effective jab in his prime and had a knack for beating southpaws.

Mario Veit 30-0-0: Veit 30 fights undefeated at the time of fighting Calzaghe got bashed out the ring in round 1, just because he was european it did`nt count?? He later got beat by Calzaghe again after climbing the ladder with 15 fights undefeated to get to no 1 spot as mandatory challenger to Calzaghe`s crown, alas he was stopped in round 6 in front of his home crowd. It seems in the prime of his career Calzaghe was the only one who had Veit`s number.

Will McIntyre 29-2-0: Kid Fire was offered this fight as at the time both Antwun Echols and Charles Brewer had turned down the fight. Kid Fire had never been stopped and was reknowned for his granite chin. Kid Fire got put on the deck in round 3 after a constant beating and schooling by Calzaghe, the fight was stopped in round 4. No other fighter got close to doing what Calzaghe did to Kid Fire, at the end of his Career Kid fire did become the IBA Americas Super Middleweight champ.

Lacy IBF World Champ at the time praised by many, got schooled,Calzaghe schooled him one handed! ( a point to be put to the critics who say "Lacy wasnt much anyway" is this " Its easy to be wise after the fight") At The Post Fight Press Conference Dan Birmingham said this about Calzaghe " I don't really want to focus on what Jeff didn't do but tonight you saw a master class from Joe Calzaghe. I have never seen such a magnificent performance as that in America or the world over. You know we have a special southpaw in Winky Wright in our team and Joe's performance ranks up their with any of his performances in the US. His performance was masterful. The distance, the timings, angles were fantastic and I assure you that Joe Calzaghe is the only man in the world who could handle Jeff Lacy in this way. We have no issues and were beaten by a master class of boxing from a well respected fighter" and that Calzaghe’s performance was the most efficient he had witnessed live in more than 30 years in boxing.


Lets also take into account the Evans Ashira fight, Calzaghe broke his left hand in round 3 and went on to win my UD, you cant say that an effort like that isnt backed with class and determination and pure boxing skill??

Charles The Hatchet Brewer was a tough boxer and former IBF World Champ who beat Herol Graham twice, Brewer wanted to fight Jones who instead decided to go up in weight ,Brewer made two further offers during his career but got turned down. Brewer wanted to fight with Hopkins but money was the issue to halt any chance of a fight happening,.I think Charles would have given Hopkins a good fight. Brewer got cheated out twice by officials in his two fights with Sven Ottke.
theres no point coming on an international boxing forum if you arent prepared to question the allegiances you use to hold as a child

people like bailey and phil mitchell cant let go of it, but thats only because they havent amounted to anything in real life - if you want to play the same game they do and spend half your life trying to convince people that the color red is really green, then you'll live in the same bubble they will for the next 20 years

be a grown up and LISTEN to what people are telling you
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:46 AM   #14
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former IBF World Champ who beat Herol Graham twice
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:03 PM   #15
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theres no point coming on an international boxing forum if you arent prepared to question the allegiances you use to hold as a child

people like bailey and phil mitchell cant let go of it, but thats only because they havent amounted to anything in real life - if you want to play the same game they do and spend half your life trying to convince people that the color red is really green, then you'll live in the same bubble they will for the next 20 years

be a grown up and LISTEN to what people are telling you
lol just putting my point across, as i think calzaghe is unfairly judged in many ways.

Let me tell you something just by the responses ive had on here from people who may have the same view point concerning calzaghe, You and Herol gee come out with ignorant crap, whilst people like Loudon and Knockout Arstist come out with constructive critisism theres a big difference.

Let me ask you this if someone did an in depth post on Jones and peds how far would you go to defend Jones and prove otherwise?
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