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Old 10-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #16
apollack
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

By Lem Satterfield: "If Johnson's resume was largely devoid of star names, it was because standout fighters of the day, from 108 to 115 pounds, such as Johnny Tapia, Danny Romero, Michael Carbajal and Ricardo Lopez are widely considered to have avoided him."

I remember the 90s pretty well, and I remember none of the top guys wanting to fight Johnson. Folks today can engage in revisionist history, but some of us remember.

He was the first African American flyweight champion, too.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

Did Arbachakov, Sasakul, Veeraphol and Wonjongkam duck him? Why didn't Johnson go over to Asia to take on the best guys? Some of those guys mentioned above were the standout guys of the day because The Ring always gave precedence to the Westerners (Austin?!) at that time when the titles weren't being unified (of course a common theme from the 80s onwards especially in the midget classes)

Anyway, he was the first African American flyweight titlist. All this aside in terms of how he should be ranked for achievement, a brilliant fighter and I'll take him over Lopez every day of the week.

Last edited by Flea Man; 10-26-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

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Originally Posted by apollack View Post
By Lem Satterfield: "If Johnson's resume was largely devoid of star names, it was because standout fighters of the day, from 108 to 115 pounds, such as Johnny Tapia, Danny Romero, Michael Carbajal and Ricardo Lopez are widely considered to have avoided him."

I remember the 90s pretty well, and I remember none of the top guys wanting to fight Johnson. Folks today can engage in revisionist history, but some of us remember.

He was the first African American flyweight champion, too.

what about the LEGITIMATE flyweight champions of his time ? instead of complaining that fighters from other division don't want to fight you, how about cleaning up your own division ?

his resume is not just devoid of star names, it's devoid of any legitimate contenders . most of his opponents didn't even get another title shot after they fought mark .
i'm not doubting the man's talent, but fighters shouldn't be in the HOF because they were supposedly " ducked " .

i also remember him losing the first time he fought someone with a pluse
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

Clearly they.should have come to America Flea. Duh. And Lopez should have quit bring such a wuss and jumped up a couple of weight classes too fight Johnson.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

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Clearly they.should have come to America Flea. Duh. And Lopez should have quit bring such a wuss and jumped up a couple of weight classes too fight Johnson.


it's really strange . you are not fighting the lineal champion of your division , or any legimate contenders for that matter . but you're complaining that the strawweight champion is ducking you ...
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:11 PM   #21
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

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Clearly they.should have come to America Flea. Duh. And Lopez should have quit bring such a wuss and jumped up a couple of weight classes too fight Johnson.
The first bit I think is a joke. Because they shouldn't have had to as you know.

The second bit I can actually agree with. Although in terms of size Lopez would be a fantastic flyweight in any era I have no problem with him not venturing further north than light fly. I was only saying that Lopez probably would've lost to Too Sharp, not that he ducked him.

Anyway, I have no problems with Lopez not fighting a top flyweight contender. Arbachakov? Sasakul? Those are fights he could've made IMO (I hear Carbajal held up any progress there) although I'm not massively bothered by it.

As I always say I try to rate based on what actually happened. And that isn't majorly impressive to me, as you know

Please stop trolling me.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

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it's really strange . you are not fighting the lineal champion of your division , or any legimate contenders for that matter . but you're complaining that the strawweight champion is ducking you ...
Got there before me!

Still, no sympathy for straw weights, **** 'em.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

Anyway, Johnson acquitted himself so well against Rafa the first time. I don't doubt, as I've said before, he was that good.

I rate fighters who actually have the achievements to go with it.

And yeah, way past his best he beat Montiel, although a late surge made it closer than it probably had to be but still, very impressive. Montiel for me, has always been hot and cold. A very good win considering Montiel was considered a rising star and favourite at the time but not the kinda' win proves a fighter is an 'ATG'.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

[quote=Flea

Please stop trolling me.]

Anyway the issue seems kind of moot because if we were being honest the problem with the hall if fame has more to do with their election process than with who they are electing. If you have such a screwed up system, you're bound to have tons of mistakes and until they make an effort to fix that we'll keep having this problem.

Of course with his persecution complex Flea probably skipped this and will just read 'Ricardo Lopez yeah! flea bad.'

Last edited by LittleRed; 10-26-2012 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

Childish romantic nonsense to suggest everyone was ducking Johnson.

More likely, but less "McCallum\Burley'esque rule of cool" simply that there were a helluva lot of vested interests from various involved parties that make unifications and meaningful fights always difficult in the modern boxing environment.Arguably none more so than the lower-weights until this past decade as they were among the most globally contested.

Plenty of fighters throughout history have suffered from a high risk\low reward scenario, but that will only take you so far.Does anyone really think the prime enduring examples like Burley, Loyd Marshall, Tony Sibson etc would be as highly rated now if all they could sport was a Johnson, Gushiken or Lopez like record.In that sense being able to hold a belt, even if not fighting the best opponents has been heavily beneficial to modern fighters.A nice list of title defences always looks good doesn't it
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

btw to be honest i don't really have a problem with the HOF's standards and biases.

I can look at things from a purist debating "all-time greatness" sort of perspective and see plenty i don't agree with, but i find it hard to really begrudge the fighters and their families some recognition when it comes down to it.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

[quote=LittleRed;14077734]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea

Please stop trolling me.

Anyway the problem sends kind of moot because if we were being honest the problem with the hall if fame has more to do with their election process than with who they are electing. If you have such a screwed up system, you're bound to have tons of mistakes and until they make an effort to fix that we'll keep having this problem.

Of course with his persecution complex Flea probably skipped this and will just read 'Ricardo Lopez yeah! flea bad.'
I love your posts. But it does seem I get ridiculed more than anyone!
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

You missed my work on the who could beat Mayweather thread. And we do it out of love Flea. And also because, like the incredible Hulk, when you get mad spectacular things happen.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:30 AM   #29
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

johnson was a hell of a fighter. he was ranked in the top 10 lb for lb for close to 5 years. in '99 he was ranked as the #5 lb for lb fighter in the world by the ring. he was only behind de la hoya, jones, holyfield and tito. good company. the division wasn't very deep but it wasn't for ricardo lopez either. both guys deserve to be in the hall, no question. johnson being a southpaw along with his very high skill level make him a tough h2h matchup for anyone who's ever fought at flyweight.
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:11 AM   #30
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Default Re: mark johnson :why is he in the HOF ?

Quote:
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You missed my work on the who could beat Mayweather thread. And we do it out of love Flea. And also because, like the incredible Hulk, when you get mad spectacular things happen.
Okay carry on
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